Re: APOLLO and ... MARS?

--- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...> wrote:

> Robert Graves had the same opinion: he thought North Wind gods in

Greece

> were doublets of Ophion.
>
> I think the Northern trait could also an IE origin, similar to

Rudra (whose

> homeplace was in Hymalayas).
> A god of cure and plague; archer; wolfish; fierce and savage;

avenger;

> coming from Northern Mountains.

I agree with these attributes coincinding, perhaps coming from a
hunting god, I'm thinking.

The Northern mountain thing is interesting, but I'm leaning towards a
different explanation:

There is an awful lot of dancing in the Eurynome creation story-
Eurynome dances alone at first, then spins about with Ophion, her
partner. The whole thing seems like it would be suited for enactment
in a ritual dance, the female as Eurynome, the male as Ophion.
Perhaps Ophion's norhtern wind comes from ritual way that the
dancers were to be situated, cardinal directions being a good choice
since they can be coordinated easily with the sun. Song and dance go
back further than prose, and in non-literate societies, I think this
would be an ideal way for an old creation story to survive through
the millenia.

Cort Williams

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MrCaws@...>
> To: <cybalist@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 10:39 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: APOLLO and ... MARS?
>
>
> > --- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I found this in
> > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~mcochrane/Myth/Apollo/apollo.html
> > > I'd like to hear your comments...
> > > " In light of Apollo's resemblance to various Oriental gods
> > identified with
> > > the planet Mars, it is significant to note that the Greek god's
> > close
> > > resemblance to the Latin god Mars has long been acknowledged.

Well

> > over a
> > > hundred years ago, Roscher documented that the cults of Apollo

and

> > Mars were
> > > fundamentally analogous. Roscher pointed to a host of features
> > shared in
> > > common between the two gods, including the following:
> > > (1) each was associated with the first month of the year;
> > > (2) each was identified with certain animals and sacred trees;
> > > (3) each was regarded as a patron of migrations and founder of
> > cities;
> > > (4) each was associated with colonizing ventures as exemplified

by

> > the Latin
> > > ver sacrum rite.
> > > Apollo, like Mars, was invoked as a great warrior to fend off

the

> > hostile
> > > neighbors. An early Greek prayer invokes Apollo as

follows: "Send a

> > > far-darting arrow from your bow against the enemy. Strike, O
> > Paian!"
> > > Indeed, the Athenian army appears to have been under the direct
> > patronage of
> > > Apollo.
> > > Both gods were associated with the advent and warding off of
> > pestilence and
> > > disease. The name Isminthians-signifying that god who sends,

but

> > also
> > > averts, plagues of mice (smintheus is an ancient Cretan word

meaning

> > > "mouse")-is one of the Latin god's oldest epithets.
> > > Yet the very same epithet was applied to Apollo in Asia Minor.
> > This fact,
> > > if it does not support the identification of Apollo and Mars, at
> > least
> > > supports the view that the two gods were functionally analogous

in

> > ancient
> > > cult. The fact that the cult of Apollo Smintheus has yet to be
> > found on
> > > mainland Greece-but only upon the outlying islands of Crete and
> > Rhodes,
> > > sites of archaic Greek colonies situated between mainland Greece
> > and Asia
> > > Minor-is an indication, perhaps, that Apollo's cult originally

came

> > to
> > > Greece from the ancient Near East.
> > > An unusual feature of Mars' cult is the war-god's identification
> > with a
> > > wolf. This motif is attested very early and, as the epithet

lupus

> > Martius
> > > attests, would appear to be central to the mythology and

iconography

> > > surrounding the Latin god.
> > > As Apollo Lykeios, the ancient Greeks understood Apollo as a

wolf-

> > god
> > > (lykeios is from a Greek stem meaning "wolf"). As the chorus of
> > Aeschylus'
> > > Seven attests, Apollo the wolf was conceived as a
> > warrior: "Lykeios, lord,
> > > be wolvish toward the enemy's army." Wolves were sacrificed to
> > Apollo at
> > > Argos and elsewhere on the Greek peninsula (this in spite of the
> > fact that
> > > wolves were extremely rare animals in Greek cult), and in Argive
> > ritual a
> > > wolf was pitted in combat against a bull, this latter rite said

to

> > symbolize
> > > Apollo's combat with Poseidon. Although scholars have observed

that

> > > Apollo's lupine-characteristics belong to the most archaic

stage of

> > his
> > > cult, an explanation of the significance of Apollo Lykeios has

not

> > been
> > > forthcoming."
> > > (...)
> >
> > I read the article, found it very interesting.
> >
> > The idea of a connection with Mars is interesting, since there

isn't

> > a good match for Apollo in the Greek pantheon. Mars originally

was a

> > protector of fields and herds, a hunting god, and a god of
> > boundaries at least according to my Roman Religion professor.

These

> > match up well with some of Apollo's attributes.
> >
> > I want to find details about the shared sacred animals, trees,

etc.

> > That's intriguing stuff.
> >
> > I would speculate that the wolf attribute might be associated with
> > the idea of a role as protector and destroyer of herds and

cattle, as

> > well as with war and the underworld.
> >
> > One thing that occured to me when I read it-They were discussing
> > the nature of Hyperborean Apollo, an epithet usually used to

denote a

> > northern origin of the deity-From the peoples beyond the North

Wind.

> >
> > I thought of a different meaning to this though-In the Pelasgian
> > Creation Myth, which I was discussing with Glen in a different

thread,

> >
> > The fist being is goddess Eurynome, who starts out alone, dancing
> > above the waters. She eventually dances, creating Ophion out of

the

> > northern wind, a serpent, who coils about her and mates with her.
> > This impregnates her, so she turns into a dove and lays an egg.
> > Ophion coils about this egg seven times, and then the universe
> > emerges from the egg.
> >
> > The article mentions that Apollo's favorite number is 7, a rather
> > unusual Hellenic number. So I propose that this Hyperborean name

is

> > referring to Apollo's identification with the primeval male
> > principle, Ophion.
> > Apollo has association with serpents, being one and slaying them.
> > Many of Apollo's attributes identify him with ithyphallic

fertility

> > gods appropriate for this serpentine Ophion deity.
> >
> > Cort Williams
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >
> >