Dear John,
I don't think this thread is really OT, as long as we are
discussing "circum-Indo-European" peoples and languages and their
possible interaction with IE groups.
The nomads in question were transhumant shepherds and cattle-herders;
they would seasonally occupy a tract of grassland used for grazing,
and migrate in search of new pastures if fodder was depleted or herds
had to be divided. I hope you agree, as a historian, that pastoralism
is not a "barbarian" transition stage (a la Lewis Morgan) between
mesolithic huntin'-&-gatherin' and agriculture, but a specialisation
that typically emerges within mixed economies where farming is
combined with livestock-raising. Nearly all pastoralists either
supplement their basic mode of subsistence with horticulture, or
develop some type of trade symbiosis with farming communities. I see
no reason why groups originating from an urban culture should not
have adopted a semi-nomadic way of life, turning pastoralists, if
there were sufficient economic or environmental incentives. Like all
narrow specialisations, pastoralism is something of a cul-de-sac, so
the herders would not have been likely to return to urban life
spontaneously; however, a close encounter with an urban civilisation
might start an acculturation process ("back to civilisation").
The substrate argument against identifying the Harappans (or at any
rate the ethnic groups of the northern fringes of the Indus Valley
civilisation) with the Dravida is quite convincing. The Indo-Aryans
seem to have mixed with Para-Munda-speaking village communities a
couple of centuries or so before establishing regular contacts with
Dravidian-speakers. But the Dravida may have undergone acculturation
in the Lower Indus Valley at an earlier date. Interestingly, the
earliest (ca. 1700 BC) datable evidence of domestic horses (and
camels) in that area comes from the vicinity of the Bolan Pass in the
Central Brahui Range (N Baluchistan), on the putative migration route
of the Dravida into Sindh, and in a region where Brahui is still
spoken. If it was the Dravida, rather than the (pre-Vedic) Indo-Aryan
avant-guarde, who brought the first horses (probably rather rare
animals in their culture) to Baluchistan and Sindh, their arrival
could be dated at the beginning of the second millennium -- that is,
the final phase of the Harappan civilisation.
Piotr
--- In cybalist@..., jpisc98357@... wrote:
> Dear Piotr,
>
> Thank you for as good an explanation as a historian could
expect. Could
> you provide an opininion as to dating. Third millenium would sound
right to
> me from a historical perspective, assuming that the Dravidian
nomads were not
> the Harappans, in which case I would assume fourth millenium.
>
> Would I be correct in assuming that even if the Elamo-Dravidians
of
> Khusistan were part of the larger urban Uruk culture that they
would not have
> gained enough knowledge of that civilization to independently
establish an
> urban civilization of their own after several generations of
wandering
> through the mountains and deserts of southern Iran?
>
> I realize that this thread is getting away from IE and will
cease and
> desist further postings on this topic if you wish.
>
> Best regards, John Piscopo
> http://www.johnpiscoposwords.com
> PO Box 137
> Western Springs, IL 60558-0137
> (708)246-7111