Pelasagians and Tyrrhenians

From: morten.thoresen@...
Message: 9516
Date: 2001-09-15

From: "Joseph S Crary" <pva@...>
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2001 9:30 am
Subject: Re: Views about Etruscan


I've seen that too and its an extremely good
I planned on addressing it when I returned from
the field this coming

archaeology calls once again.

Just need to ask; first whose translation was
this; did you finish
reading that chapter? If you do you will notice
these Tyrrhenians are
in Greece, not Italy or Anatolia. Regardless,
this may suggest they
were related to the Tyrrhenians in Italy and the
Tyrasians of

hêntina de glôssan hiesan hoi Pelasgoi, ouk echô
eipein. ei de chreon esti tekmairomenon legein
toisi nun
eti eousi Pelasgôn tôn huper Tursênôn Krêstôna
oikeontôn, hoi homouroi kote êsan toisi nun
kaleomenoisi (oikeon de tênikauta gên tên nun
Thessaliôtin kaleomenên),

Then which tongue began Pelasgoi, [I] can not
honestly say. Weather
it was at some time fixed by a boundary yet it
is said that
Pelasgôn were settled [at] Krêstôna City above
the Tyrrheni1
bordered for a time those called Dôrieusi. The
territory they had
settled is now called Thessaliôtin.

What language the Pelasgians spoke I cannot say
definitely. But if
one may judge by those that still remain of the
Pelasgians who live
above the Tyrrheni1 in the city of Creston--who
were once neighbors
of the people now called Dorians, and at that
time inhabited the
country which now is called Thessalian--

Its interesting that Pelasgians and Tyrrhenians
were mentioned side
by side in Greece. The other thing is

Pelasgôn tôn huper Tursênôn can

be rendered as:

Pelasgians, earlier the Tyrrhenians

huper has both spatial and temporal meanings:

above beyond, before, and earlier

Possible this line says the Pelasgian were
formerly the Tyrrhenians
in Greece.

Hope this helps

JS Crary

Hello Joseph

If the meaning in this context is "Pelasgians before the Tyrrhenians",
(and not above) I understand it as the Pelasgians were first, and then
the Tyrrhenians entered the picture. Could this also be understood as
a perseption of the 5th century BC that Tyrrhenians and Pelasgians had
become one people?

Herodotus' Tyrrhenians went to Smyrna to build themselves ships.
Suppose they sailed away to Italy with the assistance of Pelasgians.
Is it not quite possible that some groups of Pelasgians and
Tyrrhenians for reasons unknown were left back in Greece, and simply
stayed there?

By the way, where is/was the city Krêstôna located? (On Peloponnese,
near Pirgos?)