Re: [tied] Words like Conch: is it PIE?

A possible PIE derivation is from *k^onk- 'hang', an item we have just discussed (without mentioning shells): *k^onk-h2-o-s 'bangle, hanging ornament' > 'sea-shell, conch'. To be sure, its limited geographical distribution is problematic; on the other hand, if it's an eastern loanword, it must be a very old one, and the borrowing trajectory remains to be explained (the Greek word, with its initial k-, can't have been taken directly from Indo-Aryan).

Piotr

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Subject: [tied] Words like Conch: is it PIE?

Conch & Gr. Konkhos, is it PIE? ------------------------------ Conch NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. conchs (kngks) or conch·es (knchz) 1. Any of various tropical marine gastropod mollusks, especially of the genera Strombus and Cassis, having large, often brightly colored spiral shells and edible flesh. 2. The shell of one of these gastropod mollusks, used as an ornament, in making cameos, or as a horn. 3. Anatomy See concha (sense 1). ETYMOLOGY: Middle English conche, from Old French, from Latin concha, mussel, from Greek konkh. [From American Heritage dictionary]. ------------------- Does the root for European words like Conch spread only from Greek? If true, is it possible that Greece got the word for Conch from India? India exported the spiral sacred chanks even in Mesopotamian times. In Dravidian culture and literature, conch shells are used as trumpet horns, as well as bangles. (Ref. 2000 years old Sangam tamil texts). Conches are blown at weddings and funerals to ward off evil spirits etc., There was an important tamil caste who were known as kIran 'shell cutters'. Among Telugus and Kannadigas a major caste is Balijas (cognate with tamil vaLaiyar, 'bangle folk'). Words for Shells in Tamil and Sanskrit -------------------------------------- 1) The root for english word 'Cowrie': -------------------------------------- Tamil word is kOTu 'bent, horn, mountain top' etc., T. Burrow derives Sanskrit kapaTa 'crooked, cunning' from dravidian kOTu. kOTu/kuvaTu > kavaTu > kapaTa. (kOTu/kuvaTu, compare URu/uvaRu 'spring water'). In Tamil, kavaTi (pronounced as kavaDi) = cowry shell. -D- or -L- > -r- are common: kavaDi/kavari > (English) cowrie. Tamil kOTu, pronounced as kODu, with k- > c- cOLi/cONi/cO_li = cowrie Note that kOTu = 'conch' as in kOTTunURu = 'conch lime'. 2) vaLai 'bangle made of shells' -------------------------------- The most important jewelry in sangam tamil texts is conch shell bangle, widows removed it upon the husband's death. It is vaLai in tamil, baLe in Kannada, and balija is a major caste of bangle producers. Like kOTu/kavaTi, vaLai also means 'to bend', 'curve' etc. 3) caGku 'conch' in Tamil -------------------------- In classical Tamil, koGku = 'curve, bend, hill'. Mountanous region of Tamil Nadu state in India is called KoGku country in ancient literature, The Goa region is called KoGkANam in Aryan and Dravidian languages. South India and Ceylon are the native region for sacred chank shells, they grow upto 10-12 inches. In fact, Krishna blowing conch shell to signal the start of the Mahabharata epic war is enshrined in that pose in Tiru-alli-kEni temple in Madras. Poems describing Krishna, the conch blower, date back to at least Pallava period (15 centuries). In Tamil, caGku 'conch' < koGku. k-/c- alterations are common in Dravidian (eg., kivi (kannada), cevi (tamil) = 'ear'), so also is [C]o- > [C]a- (Eg., nontA > nantA in nontAviLakku, potini > pa_lani 'an important hill with a Skanda-Murukan temple', etc.) zaGkha = a shell , (esp.) the conch-shell (used for making libations of water or as an ornament for the arms or for the temples of an elephant ; a conch-shell perforated at one end is also used as a wind instrument or horn ; in the battles of epic poetry , each hero being represented as provided with a conch-shell which serves as his horn or trumpet and of ten has a name (Sanskrit Lexicon). In the Veda, zaGkha 'conch' is not attested in the earliest work (Rgveda), but only in the later Atharvaveda. Possibly, drav. koGku > skt. zaGkha. koGku as conch is found in tamil words like kokkarai 'shell'. (Cf. kokku(tamil)/koGka(telugu) and kaGka (sanskrit) 'heron'. dravidian etym. dictionary(DED) entry). Also, refer Prof. M. Witzel, Substrates in old Indo-Aryan, Electronic Jl. of Vedic studies (EJVS), Harvard university, 1999 for non-IE k- to z- examples such as karkoTa/zarkoTa, kambu/zambu, kimIda/zimIda ... (Note 1). In Greek mythology, Triton, the merman sea monster, blows conch trumpets to calm down the stormy seas, or in the battle between gods and giants. Triton is closely associated with Perseus-Gorgon myth. A. David Napier's works 1) Greek Art and Greek Anthropology: Orienting the Perseus-Gorgon myth, p. 77-112, in Foreign Bodies, 1996 Univ. California press and 2) Ch.4: Perseus and the Gorgon Head; Ch.5 The Third Eye, in Masks, transformation and paradox (1986) delineate the influences from India & Iran in these Iron age Greek myths. Particularly with the Third eye of Shiva, The tilaka 'forehead mark' of Hindus, etc., are shown as part of the Orientalizing revolution. If so, is Conch-blowing by Triton in these myths also a part of Oriental influence? Is konkhos (Greek) a PIE word? If so, what are the cognates of it in other IE language families of Europe? Or is it a loan from India (koGku/caGku (tamil) > zaGkhu in sanskrit)? Compare also: oryza 'rice' (Greek) ultimately related with arici (tamil). Regards, N. Ganesan Note 1: M. Witzel's words 1999, substrates in OIA: [Quote] This is the opportune moment to briefly discuss another northwestern peculiarity, the interchange of k/z in Vedic. This has occasionally been observed, even one hundred years ago in the case of karkoTa/zarkoTa, but it has not been put into proper relief (Kuiper 1991: 41, 42, 44 as Proto-Munda, cf. KEWA III 309, Witzel 1999). The interchange of k and z is not related at all to the well-known Indo-Ir. development of IE *k' > Ved. z, as the present variation occurs only in 'foreign' words. The name of the snake demon zarkoTa (AV) appears also as karkoTa(-ka) RVKh 2.14.8, and locally especially in Kashmir and Nepal; cf. Bur. hergin (Berger hargi'n) 'dragon' or rather gha'rqa (Berger gha'rqas: CDIAL 3418?) 'lizard', Skt. karkaTa 'crab', Mundari kaRkom etc. (Pinnow 1959: 341 $483d). The prefix zar-/kar- can be connected with [s@...] of the '300 foreign words' (Kuiper 1991: 40-1, 1948: 121), for example in sRbinda (Kuiper 1939 = 1997: 3 sqq.), ku-sur(u)-binda, bainda (Bind tribe), post-Vedic vindh-ya. Further materials include kambala/zambara 'blanket/name of a demon', kabara/zabara, kIsta/zISTa 8.53.4 (with var. lect. zIST-, zIrST-, zIrSTr-, see above), kimIdin/zimidA- 'demon/a demoness', kambu/zambu 'shell' (Kuiper 1955: 182), cf. KU-zAmba, Kau-zAmba 'name of a person', cf. ki-zora 'filly' AV, 'youth' CDIAL 3190 : zi-zu 'baby', zi(M)-zu-mAra 'Gangetic dolphin', zizUla 'dolphin' RV (EWA II 641-2; Le'vy, in Bagchi 1929: 121 sqq.), kirAta/cilAda 'a mountain tribe', kiknasa 'ground grain' AB: cikkasa 'barley meal' lex., Bur. Son ~ Ved. kANa 'blind' RV. [End Quote]