Re: [tied] Thucydides+Tyrrhenian again

From: Rex H. McTyeire
Message: 9344
Date: 2001-09-11

Except that it is difficult to think that way..when Strabo and others layer
Oscan/Tyrrhenian/Pelasgian with the latter coming from Anatolia time
AND dominance..inside Greece. ( Anatolia is also where Arch. consensus <
newly > but < clearly > sources the Etruscans.) No one extinguishes
the T. however, and many refer to pockets remaining..even with a distinct
but implied minority language. I read the Thucydides < brief > reference
as: within the Pelasgian regional pseudo-state ..where Pelasgian culture
(language ??) dominated .. older identifiable pockets remained recognizable
as T. There is no conflict here. There were T.'s ; then there were others;
and P.s dominated. Recognizable T.s remaining in Pelasgian dominated
regions < were > a subset to recorded history. That does not reorder the
chronology to follow P with T. Even the P. legends of Athens have T.s
there when the P.'s arrive. (Yes Glen, I think Lemnian, Etruscan and Reatic
are Pelasgian. I had a longer response in draft; developing slowly..because
I THOUGHT you would be out of the net for a few weeks :-) (Miguel's point
not excluding external pockets and variants surviving..If I have a point at
all in counter to Miguel..{I have no idea what language the Linguistic
discipline has applied the Pelasgian label to.}... It is that looking at
language /culture of the Aegean periphery in terms of some distinction
isolated within mainland Greek geographic lines before an
error from the start..but the way thinking is structured in a number of
disciplines.) If not clear: I dispute Tyrrhenian as emerging post
Pelasgian, or from Pelasgian (regardless of how the P. label has been
applied in any discipline.), and any chronological following of P. by T.
(culture, people, or language). I do maintain that some T. pockets were
recognizable as a resilient element from earlier times; post P. (The date
Glen uses: 3500 a decline of T. influence inside Greece; tracks
with my thinking)...comparing that to Poliochni at the EBA horizon at 3000
BC. (For MrCaws..the P.s displaced Minyans or Minyae on Lemnos..but no clue
on the time or if the Minyae were in fact Tyrrhenians). How you
have T. fading at 3500 ( I agree)..But..surviving well enough < in
Anatolia > late 9th century to transplant itself into Italy and dominate
regionally for a period?

Cu Stima;
Rex H. McTyeire
Bucharest, Romania

O-:From: Glen Gordon
O-:Not surprising if one thinks of the Pelasgians as living
O-:traditionally in mainland Greece and the Tyrrhenians as
O-:overseas Pelasgians, those that had spread beyond their homeland.
O-:Responding to : MrCaws:
O-:>Here, Thucydides refers to Tyrrhenians as a subset of Pelasgians, and
O-:>furthermore puts said Tyrrhenians as former Athenians.