Re: [tied] Patronymics; -sen, -ez

From: João S. Lopes Filho
Message: 8968
Date: 2001-09-02

The origin suffix -ez/-es is a very disputed question.
Some scholars sugest an euskara suffix -ez "made of" - berun "lead" / berunez "made of lead"
Another ones sugest Latin -ici (genitive of -icus)
The most probable is the Gothic genitive ending -is.
Hrothareik (>Rotharicus > Rodrigo) : gen. Hrothareikis (>Rotharicis > Rodrigues)
Would be Sancho < *Sanctius , through a dialectal form ?
In Portuguese there's a a lot of examples
Fernando : Fernandes
Rodrigo : Rodrigues
Domingos : Domingues
Joa~o : Eanes/Enes/Anes
Sima~o : Simo~es
Antonio : Antunes
Nuno : Nunes
Diogo : Dias
----- Original Message -----
From: Che
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Patronymics; -sen, -ez

I'm sure that's another Europe spread thing of those that seem to have taken place during that time.
I'm talking about the characteristic -ez family name former suffix in Spanish (-ez surnames are absolutely predominant in Spain) and, I can imagine, Portuguese -es. In Catalan we have an equivalent for that in -is, but it seems to be something almost exclusive of Valencian surnames which may have been originally the translation of those castillian -ez's, like Pérez (son of Pero>Pedro) -> Peris; Fernández (son of Fer(di)nando) -> Ferrandis (son of Ferran), etc. It happens with a few ones only. I think Catalan, once more, keeps the gaulic tradition (does this -es/-ez/-sen/-son... thing happen in French?).
Oh! Going back to my little theory about the Gartzia's and their influence in southern spanish and american, I noticed that another "pure castillian" surname like "Sánchez" which comes from Sancho is Basque origined, too. It comes from (navarrese) basque patronymic "Antso" (it is proven, not my invention) and is, together with García (bizkaian), Rodríguez (germanic->castillian), and Fernández (germanic->castillian) within the top four in the spanish raking of usual surnames. Just info, nothing else.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 10:34 AM
Subject: [tied] Patronymics

--- In cybalist@......, "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@......> wrote:
> About GARCIA family: Garcia was originally a first name, not
surname. So,
> there's a lot of independent Garcia families, because the name
Garcia was
> used as a patronymic - so, Juan Garcia was the Juan Garcia's son.
The same
> is valid for Gomes/Gomez and Osorio.
> After XVI century the patronymics became gradually surnames. You
> analogous examples of patronymics becoming surnames in almost all
> languages.
> See yours -  "Pedersen" = Peter's son
> And mine "Simoes Lopes" = Simon's son, Lopo's son
> Joao Simoes Lopes
> Rio,Brazil

All the -sen names (I belive the top one (Nielsen ?) claims 6% of the
population) were fixed in the last half of the 19th century by law.
Before that time they were true patronynmics, cf eg our national
composer Carl Nielsen, son of Niels Jørgensen Maler (house painter).
His youngest siblings, born after that law, had the surname
Jørgensen. If the name was ambiguous, you might add the name of the
farm he was from, giving you names like Søndergård Poulsen, Nørregård
Olsen etc., profession: Maler, Bager, Smed or village: Knabstrup,
Mørkøv. Almost a Russian system!
When I was in the army the old custom of calling each other by
village name (or number) was still used among us privates.