Dear Mark and Cybalisters:
----- Original Message -----From: markodegard@...Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 6:28 PMSubject: [tied] Re: Ergative Stage of PIE--- In cybalist@......, rao.3@...... wrote:
> --- In cybalist@......, markodegard@...... wrote:
> > Ergativity makes my hair stand on end.
> > Man-abs kill = the man committed murder.
>
> Do you have a specific example of a language where it works like
> this? AFAIK, Man-abs kill would mean 'the man died'.
Maybe I got it wrong. The whole thing really does make my hair stand
on end.
Intransitive verb = agent in absolute case.
Transitive verb = agent in ergative, patient in absolute.
'Kill' can be trans and intrans.
[PCR]You are making something relatively simple very complicated.Semantically, 'kill' is a two-participant verb. To 'kill' without someone doing it, is impossible. And someone must 'kill' someone. This two-participant characteristic makes 'kill' transitive. No intransitive employment is possible since the definition of intransitive is a one-participant verb, like 'die'. One cannot 'die' someone; one can only 'die'.In passives, 'kill' is still transitive. A passive was originally a transitive construction in which the agent was not known or wanted to be expressed. The phrases with 'by' originated as instrumentals: 'he was killed by hanging' or 'he was killed with a knife'.PatPATRICK C. RYAN | PROTO-LANGUAGE@...
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