Re: [tied] Tyrrhenian and its relation to IE

From: erobert52@...
Message: 8608
Date: 2001-08-18

In a message dated 17/08/01 20:26:04 GMT Daylight Time,
glengordon01@... writes:

> Well, it's an interesting idea but it can't be a correct
> one since instances of /Larthal/ or /Larthial/  (Larth
> is a _guy_) burst your theoretical bubble. In fact,
> where are there instances of */Larths/? Sorry.

Sorry, /Larths/ does exist. I do wish you would look at
the CIE before you say that words do or don't exist. Also
some people gloss /Larthia/ as a female name. Anyway, I
just meant that the dative was the origin of Etruscan

> > upiku pheluriesi phelvinuale
> > paniun laSuanuale upiku perunies sxaispala
> ...
> Unless you can supply *full* translation of the above
> Rhaetic texts, I'm not impressed. We both are in accord
> that the ending -ale is relatable to Etruscan and
> Lemnian but any translation is tentative given the few
> inscriptions that exist. All we can say is that Rhaetic
> is related to Etruscan based on morphology.

We can translate these in the same way as we can a lot of
Etruscan texts. We can see where the proper names are and
detect the occasional bit of vocabulary. The grammatical
structure is clear from parallels in Etruscan and from
the context of the object bearing the inscription. They
are votive offerings, a ladle and a dish, made by or from
somebody to or for somebody else (like a god or goddess).
There are loads of inscriptions in other languages that
we know better that have exactly the same semantic
content. Here are two votive inscriptions from Lagole,
just down the road from Raetia, MLV 165 and MLV 207, a
ladle and a jug respectively, but inscribed in Venetic:

fo.u.vo.s eneijo.s. doto dono.m trumusijate.i
klutaviko.s. doto dono.m. Sa.i.nate.i.

This hardly requires translation even if the context
hadn't given the game away already. Even if we did not
already know that one class of nouns in Venetic has a
dative singular ending of /-ei/ we would be able to pick
out the dative.

In the same way, we can see that /-ale/ is the dative in
the Raetic inscriptions. Thus,

upiku pheluriesi phelvinuale: "Offering (cf. Etr. /up-/)
from Feluria to Felvinua"

paniun laSuanuale upiku perunies sxaispala: "Votive (cf.
Etr. /alpan/) to Lasuanua offering from Perunia Scespalis"

Or similar.

> This is an excellent site on the Etruscan language. A nice
> summary of grammar, including all _inflections_ (although
> the website background is hideous):

The one consisting mainly of an article by R.S.P. Beekes,
whom you described as a lunatic a few months back (and I
defended), for suggesting an ergative origin for /-s/?

I'll come back to you later on this idea you have that
Etruscan is flexional.

Ed. Robertson