Re: Odin as a Trojan Prince

From: cas111jd@...
Message: 8573
Date: 2001-08-17

> Well, sometimes the lowlier the huts, the more extravagant the
> mythology.
Yes, but I was talking about reconciling the dates between the fall
of Troy c1250 BC and the paucity of Greco-Anatolian cultural
influence in Tuscany for centuries. I don't see how refugees from a
great civilization could have no noticable impact.
> Way back, and I forgot the details, I saw a theory that there was a
> massive fault in the dating of prehistoric events. The revision
> proposed shrank the dark ages after 1200 BCE to a very short time.

If the dates don't fit, move the dates?

> far as I can see, this (and only this) would save the incorporation
> of Aeneas story, like this:
> Troy consists of a city and the surrounding land. After Troy is
> sacked, people try to live on, but because of disasters (and
> of loss of income from the city) are forced to leave. This would
> both the Aeneas and the Ulysses legend part of the Sea People
> campaign.

My own theory is that Troy was the economic lynch pin of the Aegean-
Anatolian world. The Mycenaeans were threatened by the growing power
of the Hittites, and connived to defeat them. This is seen in the
Hittite records where the 'king of Ahhiyawa' (Achaea) supported
revolts in Arzawa (Caria) and probably Assuwa (Asia). The latter
included the king of Wilusa (Ilion), but Wilusa was later a loyal
vassal, sending a contingent of troops to Syria to fight at Kadesh
against Rameses (the "Drdn" of Egyptian records = Dardanians of the

The Ilion-Hittite alliance was based on trade from the Balkans -
especially tin. In Homer's Iliad, the Hittites were remembered as
the "Indians", the fleet from Egypt and Phoenicia were probably

Why nothing in Hittite records? The Trojan War occurred probably soon
after Kadesh. The Achaeans knew the Egyptians were attacking and
probably took advantage of the weak Hittite western flank. Helen,
IMO, was probably a version of the 'abduction of the summer fertility
goddess by the winter/underworld death god' familiar in EVERY IE

During his reign, the Hittite king (Mursilis, I seem to recall) moved
his capital from Hattusas to a town (Tarkuntassa) somewhere near the
Tarsus which has yet to be found. All his royal letters were left
there, including records of the war against the Egyptians in Syria
and against the Achaeans at Troy. As this city was occupied for only
a short time, it may have been little more than a castle. Pity if the
Euphrates dam water is now covering it!

Anyways, the economic and social dislocation in Greece caused by the
Trojan War was hinted at by Homer. The Troad was no doubt ruined,
with some survivors dispersing. I doubt that they went to Italy or
the Tauric Chersonese. Nearby areas of Thrace and Anatolia are more
likely. They had friends and allies there.

The Sea People movement soon followed but was largely unrelated to
the Trojan War. This appears to have begun suddenly about 1200 BC -
at least 50 to 75 years after the Trojan War. A huge area suffered at
this time: Egypt and Assyria almost collapsed, the LBA in the Balkans
as well as Greece and Anatolia collapsed completely. Depopulation,
cultural decline, and folk movements followed over a massive area.
Drought is a convenient explanation. It is hinted at in records at
Ugarit where grain shipments from Egypt are anxiously hoped for. I
don't know of a better one.