[tied] Re: Odin as a Trojan Prince

Ever since Homer, myths and legends have persisted about foundations
of civilizations from Trojan War heroes. Some, like Mopsus in
Anatolia, may be true. Others such as Trojans settling in norther
Greece, which was populated by kindred Thracians in those times, may
also have some basis in reality. After all, the collapse of the
Aegean civilization and depopulation of much of the region soon
followed the Trojan War. The diaspora resulted in the Sea Peoples
going all the way to Egypt.

However, anything else is too fanciful. A few may have made it to
Italy, though I suspect that the Romans' grafting Aeaneas to their
foundation myth is already beyond believability.

To give themselves credibility and airs of princely legitimacy, every
Anatolian city in the Hellenistic period adopted someone from the
Iliad as their founder. The Romans, IMO, did the same with Aeneas.
They also flattered the Trinovantes of Britain as being descended
from Trojans, based on a supposed name similarity.

These theories and tales die hard because they are romantic
fantasies.

--- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...> wrote:
> But, is there a possibility, even remote, of these legends be a
true basis?
>
> Why did Scots relate themselves to Scythia or Egypt? The folk-
etymological
> association between Scotia and Scythia? The Biblical references to
Egypt,
> including them in the Moses cycle?
> I've already references in books about dog breeds, that Celtic
terriers
> could have been a Egyptian origin, relating them to the
Egyptian "teckel", a
> small, short-legged dog, usually considered to be ancestor of German
> dachshund, Welsh Pembroke Corgi, and even Maltese bichon.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <tgpedersen@...>
> To: <cybalist@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 10:08 AM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Odin as a Trojan Prince
>
>
> > --- In cybalist@..., "Joseph S Crary" <pva@...> wrote:
> > > Torsten
> > >
> > > I've seen this same type of foundation tradition used by several
> > > Nordic-German tribal confederations. The Franks and Langobards
use
> > it.
> > > Even the Scots use it. These focus on either Troy or Scythia.
The
> > > Scots actually use Scythia in one tradition and Scythia-Egypt in
> > > another. They all seem to use the region immediately north of
the
> > > Black Sea as a common point of origin. However, both the Franks
and
> > > Langobards had more detailed traditions concerning their
migration
> > > from Scandinavia to Germany.
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't think these traditions are inventions as we would view
it
> > > today. I think there may have been different traditions or sets
of
> > > traditions floating around. One that applied to the more recent
> > > history of a given tribe. A second, that applied to the very dim
> > and
> > > very ancient tribal history. And, a third tradition that
actually
> > > comes from Hellenistic sources, and had been merged with the
second
> > > tribal tradition. The merging of the second and third traditions
> > > allowed these tribes a way of relating to the Roman world. Then
> > there
> > > is the Judeo-Christian aspect that later required northwestern
> > > European ruling families to trace their ancestry back to Adam.
Its
> > > important to remember that these are real traditions, although
> > > historically they may not be entirely reliable.
> > >
> > > These traditions may reflect different aspects of a given
tribal or
> > > later national history?
> > >
> > > JS Crary
> >
> > I get the feeling that you are somehow agreeing with me (thank
you ;-
> > ) ), but I can't figure out your epistemology. My own says a
story is
> > either true or false, either it happened or it didn't.
> >
> > Torsten
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >