[tied], Re:, Tell me an ancient word for Steppe...Finally

From: Christopher Gwinn
Message: 8501
Date: 2001-08-14

> The Cimmeri, Kimmer, Cimbri, Himmer, and Cambri
> thingie
> a topic tas'gone, round n'round, here about

Yes, because some people just can't give up on their pet theories,
even after they are proven wrong.

> I've been told that it is impossible for there to have been a early
> form of this word that looks like either Cimbri or Kimmeri, means
> land, country, or nation. Alas I've found the Luwian word --immari,
> meaning a field, or steppe. Then there is the Hittite word --
> and --kimmara, defined as meaning, the land, country, and nation.
> You may notice the similarity of gimmerara to the Assyrian name for
> the Kimmer/Cimmeri-called Gimirrai.

The problem with your theory is that there is no reason whatsoever to
think that Cimbri or Kimmeri mean "land, country or nation".

> C Gwinn wrote this about Cimmeri/Kimmeri earlier this year
> --it would appear in Common Celtic as *comrogos/*comrogi (because
> Gaulish/Brittonic brog- was mrog- in earlier Common Celtic period),
> which would then later become Gaulish and Brittonic
> *cobrogos/*cobrogi and ultimately lead to Welsh Cyfry.--

You are not quoting me in full. Frst of all, I explained to you (and
clearly it didn't stick) that the Welsh word Cymry is _provably_ a
late formation that does not date earlier than the middle of the 1st
milennium AD! It is not even found as an ethnic name in the earliest
Wesh poetry! The singular Cymro is from a Neo Brittonic Com-
brogos "Fellow-Countryman" - if the name actually dated from
prehistory, however, it would not have taken this form, but would
have rather been an Early Brittonic *Co-mrogos/*Co-brogos (in ancient
compositions, -m- was not used in the prefix com- "co/fellow" before
an -m- or -b- in the second element), which would have produced a
Welsh *Cyfro/*Cyfry instead. This is how we know that Cymry is not
particularly old and has absolutely nothing to do with the name
Cimbri - so Cimbri very likely does not share the meaning of "Fellow

> These similar looking Anatolic words sport the same meanings.
> Now is there appears a solid connection between the Luwian immara
> Hittie kimmara, with the Hellenic rendering kimmerion, Latin
> and later Celt forms? It seems so to me.

I am sure it does - this comes as no surprise.

> Interestingly, it would make sense that the word appears in
> and proto- or whats often called Common Celt as the split between
> these two groups and the main post-Anatolic group may have occurred
> around the same time (around 2300-1800 BC). Apparently, this
> primitive term for the steppe was retained in the southern Ukraine
> for a long time, possibly to be adopted as a reference for a
> political grouping.
> Still...
> Glen I found this while looking for information about
> ...the Etruscans

Spare me. What _happened_ to this list?? I seem to remember it having
a much higher level of quality in the past. Now it is a haven for
quack theories. Very sad.

- Chris Gwinn