From: tgpedersen@...
Message: 8117
Date: 2001-07-26
>in
> --- In cybalist@..., tgpedersen@... wrote:
>
> >
> > > Now, does the city of the Cimmerians sound as if it is located
> > the
> > > sunny Mediterranean - or could it be foggy, misty Jutland?
> >
> > I'm still thinking of Pytheas journey north along the Atlantic
> coast
> > to Tanais.
> >
> > > You may also be aware of a comparison done between Homer's
> > catalogue
> > > of ships that set sail from Aulis, their home ports, and the
> names
> > of
> > > towns in Denmark. If not, ask and I'll find it and post it for
> you.
> >
> > Am not, please do.
> >
--- In cybalist@..., cas111jd@... wrote:
> Torsten:
>
> I got this from a website, but I forget where. I believe it was
> reprinted from someone who made this comparison decades ago.
>
> An interesting Scandinavian name found in Homer is Scandeia, a town
> and region in east Jutland now called Skanderborg. Eutresis, Copae,
> Nisa, and Anthedon 'on the seaboard' seems to be modern Dreslette,
> Copenhagen, Nissum, and Andkaer, respectively, while Eilesium could
> be Elsø.
>
> Meanwhile, in the northeast is Cnossus, now Knøsen. In Crete,
ancient
> Cnossus is the center of the story of Icarus, who escaped from the
> labyrinth on wings that he made himself. His name seems to echo in
> the modern town of Ikast in the central Jutland, translating as
Ikar-
> sted (the town of Icarus). Homer mentions the Icarian Sea once (Il.
> II, 145). This must have been part of the North Sea, perhaps known
> today as the Skaggerak, where the 'south and east winds whip up the
> sea', against the coast, that is. We should note that this
> description makes little sense in the Mediterranean. There, the
> Icarian Sea is off the southwest coast of Turkey, not between Crete
> and mainland Greece as we would expect.
>
>
The following comments, unless otherwise indicated are from Bent
Jørgensen: Stednavneordbog, Gyldendal.
> Homeric towns |Modern place names
> of Boeotia |in northern Denmark
>
> Hyria | Hjørring, the region north of Aalborg
Hjørring, Vendsyssel
Herringa 1146-54
Jherringy 1231
Hiøringh 1243
The form from 1231 must have switched the two first letters
[TP: not so. In NW GErmany, N of Oldenburg is a town spelled
today Jheringen. According to a local who gave me a ride hitch-hiking
the pronunciation was once hy- (or y.-) as in "huge", same as the
local pronunciation of Hjørring].
Old Danish *hior corresponding to Old Icel. hjorr "sword" and
ultimately related to words meaning "cut".
"the sword-shaped (? cut) place"
TP: lame.
>
> Aulis | Aalborg
Alabu coin 1035-42
Alaburg *1075
Aleburgh *1231
1st element: Jutlandese ål "furrow, ditch" presumably referring to
the old branching course of the Østerå into the Limfjord. The
traditional explanation, according to which ål (n.) should refer to
the channel in the Limfjord fits badly with the fact that the first
element is in the gen. pl.
[TP: There were two "å"'s in Ålborg: Østerå and Vesterå]
>
> Schoenus | Skjern, a town SW of Limfjord
Skjern Viborg
Skærnæ *1347
Original hydronym derived with -n from adj. skær "pure, clear", ...
about Nørreå.
>
> Scolus | Skjoldborg, in extreme NW Jutland
Skjoldborg
Skyolburgh
1st element skjold "roundish hill" [and "shield"]
>
> Eteonus
>
> Thespeia
>
> Graea | Grærup
Grærup Esbjerg
Grerup 1565
1st element of uncertain origin
2nd element -thorp
>
> Mycalessus | Mygind and Mylund in eastern Jutland
Mygind Djursland
Mygynd 1396
1st element seems to be the stem in møg, Proto-Nordic *muki "muck,
dung"
2nd element -und.
? "the mucky, dungy place"
Mylund is in NW Jutland
[TP: Weird case. I once pointed out the frequent occurence of -s, -
ind, -und in pre-Germanic Danish place names, similar to Pre-Greek
placenames in Greece in -ssos,-inthos, -unthos. Here Greek -ssos
seems to correspond to Danish -ind.
>
> Harma | Harnorup
Harndrup West Fyn
Harnthorp 1319
Harrendorp 1423
The original name of the å passing through the village: Old Danish
*Harund(a), derived from Old Danish *har "stone, stony ground".
[TP: another -und]
>
> Eilesium | Elsø
Elsø Mors
Ellsø *1418
Else *1467
1st element possibly man's name Old Danish E:le:f
?"E:le:f's hill"
>
> Erythrae
>
> Eleon
>
> Hyle | Hyllebjerg
Hyllebjerg Himmerland
1st element most likely tree name hyld "elder"
"elder hill"
>
> Peteon
>
> Ocalae
>
> Medeon | Madum
Madum Ringkøbing, W Jutland
Matæ mark 1292
Matum *1325
Må:m locally
Pl. of old Da. *mat, most likely in sense known from other Nordic
languages "border, border marker", derived from the root of a word
that means "to measure". In the oldest form the name is in gen. pl.
while all younger forms are in dat. pl.
"(on, at) the border markers"
Madum is situated at the border between Ulfborg and Hing herred.
[TP: that "met" measure is an old one, found also in AfroAsiatic and
Austronesian]
>
> Copae | Copenhoved, Copenhagen
Københoved Haderslev, S Jutland
Købingho 1478
Købinghoffuet 1486
1st element købing "market town"
2nd element head
Havn 1186
mercatorum portus *1200
Køpmannæhafn 1253
1st element købmand "merchant" [cf. cheap, chapman]
[or, perhaps
Købelev Lolland
Kæpælef *1231
1st element most likely Old Danish *køpi "buyer, merchant"
2nd element -lev "inherintance"
>
> Eutresis | Dreslette
Dreslette Assens W Fyn
Dreslette *1345
Dreyslæte 1420
[dre'slajde] locally
1st element drej "narrow spit"
2nd element slette "plain"
"the plain at the spit"
>
> Thisbe | Thisted
2 places
Thisted
Tystath 1367 Thy
Thistedt *1497 Viborg
1st element the god-name Old Danish *Ti:- (Tyr) or the identical Old
Danish *ti: "(heathen) god"
2nd element sted "place"
[but how about:
Thise Salling
Tyszet *1467
Tyisse 1498
Tiiswed 1501
1st element as above
2nd element Old Danish with "forest"
"the forest of Tyr (or the god)"]
>
> Coroneia
>
> Haliartus | Halling
2 places
Halling *1328 Randers
Halling *1357 Århus
Both names must have been derived from an Old Danish form with short
a + l + consonant but for dialectal reasons only Halling between
Århus and Randers can contain Old Danish hall "slope" as 1st element.
Both names may contain the adj. halv "half". Both names contain the
derivational endig -ung. Halling south of Århus and possibly Halling
at Randers are probably rather Old Danish *halvung "half part"
corresponding to a word that occurs in West Germanic... It is
uncertain what a name meaning "half part" refers to.
"the half part"
[but how about:
Hald
2 places
Hallæheret *1231 Randers]
>
> Plataea
>
> Glisas
>
> Thebe
>
> Onchestus
>
> Arne | river ArnAa
Arnå Tønder
Arn Aw 1648
1st element the original name of the å Old Danish *Arn, derived with -
n from the root *ar- "move swiftly, quickly"
"the swift"
>
> Mideia
>
> Nisa
>
> Anthedon | Andkaer
Andkær Vejle
Ankier 1483
1st element birdname and "duck"
2nd element kær "pond"
[plenty of and- names explained the same way. Perhaps this is the
Hallstatt duck similar to *an- "breath, spirit" and -don is Celtic
too?]
Cnossus | Knøsen
Aage Houken: Håndbog i danske stednavne:
Knøs, Old danish knøs , W Nordic knauss, Sw. dial. knös "little
hill", No knaus. Occurs almost exclusively in natural harbors, eg.
Knøsen, Tranebjerg on Samsø, Skamstrup on Tuse Næs, Storeknøs, Rye
parish, Tyrsting herred (here of a hill of considerable height),
Knøsene, Gudhjem, Bornholm, of underwter reefs. Only few names of
settlements.
Scandeia | Skanderborg
Skanderborg
Skanthorpburg 1200's
Scandelburgh
first element from
Skanderup
Sklandethorp *1176
Scandthorp *1231
1st element man's name Old Danish Skandi
2nd element thorp
Icaric | Ikast
Ykost 1310
1st element tree name Old Danish i: "yew"
2nd element kvost "shrubs"
"yew shrubs"
yew < CGmc (minus Gothic) *i:(X|g)w(az|o:)-
> > Torsten
Torsten