Re: Neptune, Poseidon, Danu, etc.

--- In cybalist@..., cas111jd@... wrote:

> The Greek gods and goddesses had enough attributes, myths, and so

on

> to relate them to just about anyone you want.
> It seems to me, though, that Eurynome has the closest connection to
> the Near Eastern 'cosmic ocean' goddess and her serpentine consort.
> According to one source, Hera was the parthenogenic mother of

Typhon,

> which would also associate her with this Near Eastern role. As has
> been already noted, Athena was connected with the serpent-god, but
> this also works as its slayer - first supporting Zeus against

Typhon

> and then Perseus against the snake-haired Medusa.

I think you are right about Eurynome. However, I think the Serpent
consort of Eurynome may differ from Poseidon or Yam or Enki in that
he was disposed of early on, as per Ouranos via Kronos or Mummu via
Enki, while the latter deities were all active in their respective
pantheons. I'll get to the Athena stuff in a bit.

> PS: Cadmus and Apollo were both serpent slayers - probably versions
> of the same god and myth, IMO. Strangely, Apollo's image was as a
> dragon in his temple on Delos. This serpent/dragon slayer having

this

> beast as his totemic animal is also found quite commonly in the IE
> religions, with clans adorning their coats of arms with it,

claiming

> descent from a dragon slayer. The Welsh have one on their national
> flag. The Vikings carved them on their ships, Anglo-Saxons painted
> them on their shields.
> The aegis of Zeus and Athena had Medusa's head, which was probably
> derived from Medusa as a dragon/serpent. The aegis was emblematic

of

> storms, with Athena and Zeus both storm deities.

Both Apollo and Athena wore the emblems of defeated monsters, Python
and Medusa respectiveley. Both of these incidents involve a "cultural
hero" type figure-Apollo's directly, and Athena via Perseus.
I think that the archetypal "cultural hero" role usually involves a
triumph over a dragon or related monster. . Apollo plays the good
Freudian hero, killing the evil serpent that attacked his mother in
some versions of the story. This version seems to go back to an old
Canaanite myth where Yam, in serpent form, attacked Laton(Leto).
The story of Perseus and the Medusa also fits this archetypal hero
tale exceedingly well, with a few twists. Now, the wicked monster
figure is separated from the evil father. And it is Athena who ends
up in possession of Medusa's head. I would argue that Athena is
definetly a sort of cultural hero, but that gender constructions
among other things mandated her role as an indirect agent in the
story.
I think that both of these stories involve a theme of succession as
well. The Freudian hero tale is a story of the young establishing
dominance over their parent-figures.
Perhaps Athena's role in defeating Medusa represents a conquest of a
goddess that is now playing the role of a monster. Some mythologists
think that most demons are old gods that have been demonized by
proponents of newer faiths or by a populace that now views the
divinity as irrelevent or frightening. Thus, the emblem of the Medusa
would be also a symbol demonstrating Athena's dominance over an old
goddess(Or older version of herself) that still haunted the mythic
consciousness of the area.
Likewise, Apollo's image as a dragon could represent his succession
over the old dragon prophet, Python. As Pythian Apollo, he plays the
role of the dragon he killed.

> --- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <MrCaws@...>
> > To: <cybalist@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 4:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [tied] Neptune, Poseidon, Danu, etc.
> >
> >
> > > 1: I agree, but is this necessarily just PIE? Sumerian Lord of
> > > Underground waters Enki is pretty old,
> > > 2: So a grafting on of an IE deity to a non-IE or at least
> different
> > > IE Lord of Waters perhaps?
> >
> > Like all main great Greek gods, Poseidon is a very complex deity.
> It's hard
> > to distinguish IE and non-IE traits. There's a large amount of
> > superpositions.
> >
> > > 4:Enki was sometimes depicted as a serpent, other times as a
> fish. He
> > > seemed to be at the head of the Sumerian pantheon at one point

(In

> my
> > > opinion, anyway). Heads of the pantheon are often consorts of

the

> > > goddess and often have serpent attributes.
> > > I am interested in the Hephaistos comparison-What traits do you
> see
> > > in common?
> >
> > I think Hephaistos had a role as a sort of consort of Athena (at
> least in
> > Athens). His role of a consort of the Great Goddess, but he

bother

> her and
> > she cast him below. This myth has many counterparts across Greece
> and
> > Western Asia. I think
> > it's the main source of legends of quarrels between a god and
> goddess (the
> > god is allways defeated) : Poseidon x Hera in Argos; Poseidon x
> Athena in
> > Athens. I'd also include some interesting couples:
> > Ares (father of the Kadmus serpent) and Aphrodite in Thebas.
> > Kekrops/Erikhthonios and Athenas in Athens (Hephaistos is
> considered the
> > father of snake-bodied Erikhthonios)
> > Python and Leto in Delphi and Delos.
> > Eden's Snake and Eva.
> >
> >
> >
> > > 5. The consort of the goddess is often a Lord of the Wilderness
> > > figure such as this. I definetly think there are reasons to
> connect
> > > Poseidon to this archetype/role as well. I wonder if this
> reflects an
> > > earlier role he played in old Mediterranean/Near Eastern myth?
> > > 6.Hmmm. I will have to get back to you on that one too.
> >
> > Yes, the Lord of Wilderness was the Goddess's consort in Old
> European myths.
> > I'd like to add to the trais of Poseidon his relation to Ugaritic
> Yam, the
> > Serpentlike God of Sea. His consort was the beautiful Athtart (I
> think she's
> > the source of Greek Amphitrite)
> >
> > > Mr. Caws
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >