Re: Westward the Course of Empire Takes its Way.

--- In cybalist@..., markodegard@... wrote:

> Torsten writes:
> > I just thought of another irritating fact. Upstate New York was
> > colonized by the Dutch (note the spelling and pronounciation of

(the

> > originally Native?) Schenectady). The main entry route for
> immigrants
> > was up the Hudson river and along the canal from Albany
> > (Rensselaersburg) to Lake Erie.
>
> This is the Erie Canal. Making use of natural waterways, it runs

from

> Albany to Buffalo. It enters Lake Erie just above Niagara Falls. It
> opened in 1825, and lead to a hemorrhage of people and goods moving
> west. The natural spot for this traffic to come inland was at
> Cleveland, where the Appalacians ended.
>
> The people these immigrants first met were those of the old Western
> Reserve, by then a part of the state of Ohio. This is also where

the

> 'Midlands' or 'General American' accent really begins.
>
> The Dutch had little to do with American English.

Yes, you have stated that several times now. And your line of
reasoning is...?

>
> The other great path to the west was via the Cumberland Gap, where
> Virginia, Kentucky, North Carolina and Tennessee come together.
> This opened the way to the Ohio River valley. Even today, you hear
> 'southern' accents north of the Ohio. The southern part of the Old
> Northwest was settled this way. The northern half came from
> Cleveland. Note Abraham Lincoln's vector: born in KY but finally
> settled in Springfield, IL.
>
> The borders of the dialect maps begin to make sense, don't they?

I think so too. And the Dutch (and Low German, which I suspect were
historically also originally Dutch) have had no influence on it?

>The
> advent of railroads really changed the way people moved west, but
> not really until after 1850.

The main railroad line between New York and Chicago went the same
way, first straight north up along the Hudson River to Albany. Cf.
Hitchcock's "North by Northwest"

>
> > And there are a few things about Pennsylvania Dutch that puzzle

me.

> > Of course I know it's supposed to be German, not Dutch. But some

of

> > the samples I've seen were not High German but Low German, which

is

> > very close to Dutch. Pennsylvania Dutch was studied very early by
> > German linguist, who were happy to find some Deutschtum in the

New

> > World. Would they have classified it as "probably a Dutch

dialect"?

>
> Pennsylvania Dutch has been here a long time, before Independence.

I

> gather it is Low German too.
>
> Low German was very well known in the US clear into the last

century.

> When kids learned this at home and English at school (and NO High
> German at all), you get the messasge that Low German really is a
> separate language. Even here in NE Iowa, there were LG speakers who
> preserved their language at Church, clear into 1930s.

But was it Dutch?
Low German is so similar to Dutch that when the island of Amager
outside of Cpoenhagen was settled with Dutch orchard farmers, they
were given a priest who made use of Luther Low German version of the
Bible (Schleswig-Holstein was one of the lands of the Danish King, so
such priests were available).

Torsten