Re: [tied] Phaethon: an IE deity.

From: João S. Lopes Filho
Message: 7072
Date: 2001-04-11

I think Phaethon's Fall is a ancient theme similar to Lucifer-Samael's Fall,
Ikaros's Fall, Babel Tower "the men wanted to reach the sky", Susanoo's
descent to Earth.

----- Original Message -----
From: <markodegard@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:02 PM
Subject: [tied] Phaethon: an IE deity.


> Greek mythology gives us
> four characters with the
> name of Phaethon, all of
> whom *have to be* reflexes
> of someone far older,
> something that is certainly
> IE, and perhaps, even PIE.
>
> The idea that Phaethon (at
> least as a character, if not
> by this name) is anciently
> IE is my own idea, tho' I
> would not be suprised if
> someone has mentioned
> this in literature I've not
> seen or seen reference to. I
> don't think I am being
> original, but would not
> mind finding out if I am
> (what does Miriam Dexter
> Robins think?).
>
> The most famous Phaethon
> is the son of Helios, who
> takes out the family vehicle
> for a solo drive and
> manages to wreck the
> vehicle and get himself
> killed. [Phaeton 3, in Carlos
> Parada's pages
> http://www.hsa.brown.edu/~maicar/001ShortEntries/SEPernis.html
> ].
>
> The next most famous
> Phaethon (P. 1 according to
> Parada) is the son of Eos
> (=Dawn) or Hemera (=Day),
> by Tithonus or Cephalus.
> He was carried away by
> Aphrodite (presumably in
> her planetary guise as
> Venus) a la Ganymede to
> become caretaker of her
> shrine. Robert Graves (89.d)
> says "the Cretans call him
> Adymnus, by which they
> mean the morning and the
> evening star".
>
> The third Phaethon (Parada
> #2) is, with Lampus, one of
> the twin horses of the
> chariot of Dawn.
>
> The 4th Phaethon is
> mentioned by Graves in
> Chapter 2, "The Homeric
> and Orphic Creation
> Myths". The name
> "Protogenus Phaethon" was
> applied to Eros (here, as the
> creative demiurge, and not
> Aphrodite's naughty little
> boy).
>
> One of the twin horses or
> charioteer of the chariot[s]
> of the sky? Guardian of the
> Morning and Evening Stars?
> Ahem. At the very least we
> have a doublet of the
> Divine Twins, who at at
> earlier stage were the twin
> horses drawing the chariot
> of the Sun, accompanied by
> their sister the sun-maiden
> (Helen).
>
> Graves says Phaethon
> means 'bright', 'shining'
> with Lampus meaning
> 'torch' (if you stretch
> etymology some, 'Helen'
> can also be said to mean
> 'torch').
>
> Robert Graves' book (_The
> Greek Myths_) is nearly 50
> years old, and represents
> scholarship even older than
> that. Indo-European mythic
> studies have overtaken his
> own scholarship in the
> interval. What's interesting
> is that he tends to complain
> in *exactly* those places
> where IE motifs show up
> and give him problems, as
> with the bit with Theseus
> and Amphitrite or his
> complaints against Virgil
> vis-a-vis Aristaeus (82.5)
> (both are reflexes of the
> Child of the Waters myth,
> the apam napat).
>
> Graves badmouths the
> myth of Eos, the
> 'Rosy-Fingered Dawn' of
> literature, as "a Hellenic
> fancy, grudgingly accepted
> by the mythographers as a
> Titaness of the second
> generation; her two-horse
> chariot and her
> announcement of the Sun's
> advent are allegories rather
> than myths." (40.1). Ahem.
> We know better now. Eos is
> in fact a direct descendant
> of the PIE dawn deity.
>
> Greek myth abounds with
> doublets of the Divine
> Twins. I suspect Phaethon
> is just one name of one of
> these multiple
> duplications.
>
> Piotr, Miguel: can you give
> a convincing PIE etymology
> for 'Phaethon', or is it just a
> title turned into a name?
>
> How far can we run with this
> idea?
>
>
>
>
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