Addenda et corrigenda
Glen,
The point is that I can't see which kind of relation we
can establish between Underworld deities and so a clear Over world
function as the warrior function is. I think we have to agree with
a connection between Underworld & Chthonic cults & some odd resemblance
between Underworld deities and mortal heroes (which is a matter of
opinion or points of view, perhaps) prior to state that the warrior
function has something to do with the Underworld in a "strong" way (in
terms of identification with their powers, for example)(excuse me if
the terminology is not correct, I am just an amateur).
Of course, sometimes the warrior hero has to visit this realm
to gain access to his competencies/abilities, but does it mean that
those competencies have necessarily to be linked with the warrior
function and the Underworld? But if it is so, in which way?
Having in mind Odysseus' trip (just to cite an example), the
pattern doesn't fit. Yes, I admit that this story is rather new and that
the hero is not as a good warrior as a good liar (or perhaps a good
politician, why not?), so this trip perhaps is not useful. So let's
analyse another Underworld journey, for example Cú Chulainn's initiation
with Scáthach (only if we accept that it is another form of that realm,
of course... but if we have to follow your thesis, I am sure we will
do). He has to suffer his "ferg" to access Scáthach's land. How may
we explain this fury if he and Scáthach are under the "blessings" of the
same realm? According to Norse mythology, Thor fights against Jormungard
the serpent. IMHO, the same question arises in another way (the same
about Herakles and Kerberus).
Perhaps I may be warned that the utmost of the extant sources are
mostly from folklore than from old myths, etc. It is a good warning
indeed, but only if we don't admit that folk tales are remains of more
ancient stories. IMHO again, this would be a very big mistake. If it
happened in South American countries in the last XIX Century's years
(just think about Portuguese São Sebastião tales in North East Brazil
in times of the Canudos' revolt), what could have happened a lot of
thousands years before?
>> His
> > connection with wolves is another indication since the wolf is
> traditionally
> > associated with the moon (cf. werewolf) as well as criminality and
> both are
> > underworld symbolisms.
Yes, werewolves are associated to the moon (remember "Kaos",
a Taviani Brother's film, a somewhat modern and funny example...), but
with the warrior function too (i. e., Völsungasaga, VIII) as bears and
other animals (Inglingasaga, VI (Berserks); Persian: Hymn to Mithra,
18, 70 (Verethragna); Roman Lupercii perhaps? I think Dumézil has a
theory about that one).
> > Yes, the land of the dead... but since the dead were buried under
> the earth,
> > that "land" was located in the _underworld_.
Buried physically of metaphorically? Remember Bran's trip to
Tir-nam-ban (an island), Oisin's Tir-nan-og (another one), Achilles'
island in the mouth of the Danube (with Helen), or the Blessing Islands,
(physically) nothing to do with the Underworld.
> A great mountain had the function
> of
> > holding up the sky in some southern traditions (eg: Greek Mount
> Olympus) but
> > the original IE world view would be one where a great tree held up
> the sky.
I agree with you, but is not the tree a shamanistic/non IE
cosmological motif? Excepting Norse Iggdrassil, what tree can be useful
to support this theory? I am well aware of sacred trees in North and
South American initiation patterns, but what can we say about IE trees?
Greetings,
Omar