Re: Hun-hunting

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tgpedersen@...
> To: cybalist@...
> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:34 PM
> Subject: [tied] Huns
>
>
>
> Something from Galster's book that might interest also non-Danes:
>
> Saxo: Dan and Angel were the sons of a king Humbli.
>
> Roman de Brut, verse 1331: ...Humbers, roi des Hunus...
>
> The ON poem "The Battle of the Goths and Huns" describes Humli as

the

> leader of the Huns.
>
> Jordanes: Hulmul/Humal.
>
> which all seems to suggest that the Danes and the Angles at one

time

> were subjugated by the Huns.
>
> "A Frankish source" (some annal of the plunderings of the Normans

in

> France 833-896) calls their homeland "Scanzia" and states that it

is

> populated by Goths, Huns and Danes, which would suggest they are

not

> yet extinct at that time. Galster suggests a connection with the
> river Humber in England and the village of Hunsborough a few km

south

> of Northampton. Morton, writing in the 18th century, states that a
> Danish camp was situated there, therefore, presumably Huns went a-
> viking with the Danes. In 448, Priskos, a Roman emissary, was told

in

> Attila's camp in Pannonia that Attila had just added "the islands

in

> the Ocean" to his empire.
>
> Saxo: Humbli's successor was Loter, his brother.
>
> Roman sources: Attila's brother-in-law war Laudarius.
>
> "The battle of the Goths and the Huns": Hlodr is also called
> Humlungr, thus presumably Humbli's son.
>
> Torsten

--- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> The Humber was called Humbre (feminine!) before the first viking
raids upon the British Isles; also the Anglian kingdom of Northumbria
("North of the Humber") was formed under that name very early in the
7th c. Geoffrey de Monmouth and Drayton fantastically derived the
Humber's name from that of a Hunnish king who was drowned there while
being chased by Locrine, the son of Brutus.

Torsten:
Thank you for pointing out that source to me.

Piotr:
As all the world knows, rivers and estuaries are usually named after
heroes who drown in them, but there are at least eleven and perhaps
up to fifteen rivers Humber in England (according to Eilert Ekwall)
and a Hun called Humber can hardly have perished in each of them.

Torsten:
This is very advanced logic. There are also several rivers in Europe
containing the element *d-n- (in case you didn't know!). The Danube
is beautiful and blue. Therefore the Dniestr, Dniepr, Don and Donets
are beautiful and blue. Yes?
On the other hand, maybe a Hun named Humber once drowned in a river
on the continent. That river was later renamed, but the Angles
brought the river name with them to their new home.

>
> The etymology of English (or other) placenames cannot be discussed
meaningfully without investigating the recorded history of each
place, older spelling variants (Old English, Domesday Book), etc.
Otherwise, how would you hope to guess that, e.g., Brighton (the
resort) was "Beorhthelmes tu:n" once opon a time?
>
Torsten:
I know. This is why I post here, because I know you will look it up
for me.

Piotr:
> Hunstanton (Nf) (pronounced "hunston" locally) < Hun(e)stanes
tu:n 'Hunstan's farmstead', but Hunston (Sf) < Hunteres
tu:n 'Hunter's farmstead', while Hunston (W Sussex) < Hunan
sta:n 'Huna's boundary stone'. The rather common Anglo-Saxon personal
name Huna, which underlies dozens of Hun- placenames in Britain,
meant "bear's cub", not "Hun".
>
> Piotr
>
>
Torsten:
Of course they mean "bear's cub". Suppose you were English and
writing a book about English place names. Suppose further that you
suggested one of these names had anything to do with "Hun". What do
you think this would do to the promotion of your career? Should we
ask mr. Woodson?
Mr. Huna also surfaces in Danish place name litterature.
And who would want a name like "bear cub stone"?
(I think "Thorr's stone" sounds much nicer)

Torsten