From: jekl@...
Message: 5962
Date: 2001-02-07
--- In cybalist@..., tgpedersen@... wrote:
[snip]
> I don't blame Polish archaeologists for not doing their utmost to
> locate Germanic relics in the vicinity of "Gotenhafen" after 1945,
> but still: absence of proof...
Hello!
I think this is getting too far for my taste. As far as I know
Gotenhafen name was invented by Hitler after conquering Poland
in 1939. And noone else than Germans were pioneers of "national
archaeology".
Luckily these times are over for some time alreade. I think
there is a general consensus on the presence of different
germanic tribes in current territory of Poland, and it is not
claimed that Slavs were present in Poland since the Mesolitic
(this was getting even that far), even not anything before
second half of V century.
There was a lot of research done on Gothic presence in nowadays
Poland and I can even see that the archaeologists feel some proud
of discovering more and more, especially in eastern parts of Poland
(Kotlina Hrubieszowska). What is however interesting is that
there isn't that much proof for Gothic presence on the very shore
of the Baltic Sea, there is much more about them inland. Once
I read a theory that the tribe itself was formed actually in
northern Poland, out of many small groups slowly arriving from
Scandinavia over the years to later become Goths. This just one
theory, not necesserali true, but their material culture (known as
Wielbark culture) indeed was formed in Poland. One can track their
later expansion towards south-east along Vistula and Bug, till they
arrived to western Ukraine (forming Czerniahovsk culture) to start
their fabulous historical career... BTW I think thanks to Goths,
we have one of the first historical records of Slavs: I vaguely
remember that there is a small note told by Jordanes: after Goths
have arrived to present-day Ukraine they have fought Slavs
who were very numerous but not so well organized or experienced
in fighting so their sheer number didn't help them much.
I'm citing everything from memory so I may be mistaken a bit here.
The point is: we Poles have nothing to be ashamed of because of Goths
(or Vandals) being here before us. Not nowadays...
As for Gdansk name origin: rather prove Piotr is wrong instead of
waiting for him to prove you wrong. A simpler solution (native
word) is always more favourable solution than something more
complicated.
Jerzy