Re: [tied] Insects and other little beasts

I think it's frustrating that so usual animals like spiders and others don't have PIE reconstructable names. Maybe some kind of taboo, or alterations through folk etymology or childish language be the source of such dispersion.

The similarity between arakhne and ara:nea is striking, and Greek has also rhax (gsg. rhagos).

----- Original Message -----

From: Piotr Gasiorowski

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 8:49 PM

Subject: Re: [tied] Insects and other little beasts

Some of these reconstructions are very weakly substantiated or based on doubtful comparisons, which is hardly surprising, given that insect names are often expressive and universally prone to dialectal variation. A few are rather secure, e.g. *bH(o)i-k- 'bee', *k^rh2-s-ro-/-s-en- 'hornet' (related to the "horn" etymon), *wops-ah2- (apparently = *wobH-s-ah2-) 'wasp', *mus(-j)-ah2-/*mus-ik-ah2- 'fly', *slei-m- 'slug, snail' (also compounds with *gloi-m-, with Baltic and Slavic reflexes). Some can be combined into irregular word-constellations: *mor-m/w-ik-, *w(e)r-m-i-, *kWr-m/w-i- 'ant, worm', and the like. *karkr- (with variants) 'crab, crayfish' is widespread and no doubt old, though imitative. The words for "flea" and "louse" have probably influenced each other in some languages; they also have numerous irregular variants. The Slavic "louse" word cannot be reconstructed as *w(e)k^-jo-; the correct form is *vUs^-I- < *us-i-s (an i-stem). I find it strange that there are so many different "spider" words (e.g. Germanic *spin-T(r)- from "spin", Slavic *pa-eNk-/-oNk- from *onk-o- 'curved, hooked', Sanskrit u:rn.a-va:bhi- 'wool-weaver'). The Slavic "crayfish" word (*rakU) might derive from *h2arH-k- (maybe *xarx- = a by-form of kark-?) but not *h2ark- (this would have given Polish *rok, not rak); nor does it appear to be an old u-stem.

Your list of IE invertebrates looks so exhaustive it's difficult to add anything to it. Perhaps *knid- 'nit' -- OE hnitu < *knid-ah2-, with curious variants like Celtic *s(k)nid-, Greek konid-, Slavic gnida (< *gHnid-ah2-?), *gHlind- (as in Lithuanian glinda and possibly in Latin lens, lendis).

Piotr

----- Original Message -----
From: João Simões Lopes Filho

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 3:39 PM

Subject: [tied] Insects and other little beasts

What are the PIE words for insects and another arthropods?

*morwex- "ant" Grk myrme:x,Myrmidon Lat formica [*mormica<morvica] Sansk vamra , valmika Av maoirish VSl mravi- ON myrr VIrl muirb Arm mrjiwn

*karkros [crab] Lat cancer<cancros<carcros Grk karkinos,karkabos San karkata<karkrta

*plus- [flea] Lat pu:lex[puslex<plusex] Grk psylla [psulla<plusla] CGer flauhaz OSl bluxa [*blusa instead of *plusa] Armenian lu Sansk plushi Av brus^a Alb pl'esht Lit blus^a

*webh- [beetle?] Grk e:piolos [glowworm] Lat vappo: [winged animal] CGer webilaz [beetle, weevil], webjan [beetle,glowworm] Lit vabalas [beetle]

*bhik/bhoik- [bee] CGer bion Lat fu:cus [drone] VIrl bech OSl bic^ela Lit bitis OPrussian bitte Grk sphe:x < s-bheyak-s? [wasp]

wobhs-a [wasp] Lat vespa CGer wafs,wafis VBret guohi OSl osa Lit vapsa OPrussian wobse Corn guhien Avestic vanzaka, vawzaka

k^r@.../no- [drone, hornet] Lat crabro: CGer hornut-<*hornnut<*horzn-ut OSl sruseni Gal creyryn Lit širšuo [<k^r@...]

*mu- [fly] Lat musca Grk myia,mys CGer mugjon Arm mun Lit muse OSl muxa Alb mîze

*wrmi-[worm, insect] Lat vermis CGer wurmiz Lit varmas Grk rhomox

*kwrmi- (<*kwrwi-?) [worm, woodworm] Gal pryf=VIrl cruim Persian kirm Lit kirmis San krmih Rus tcherv-

*matx- [moth] CGer maþ-[moth] Rus mot,mol' San ma tkuna [bug] Alb molë

*pepel-[butterfly] Lat papilio OE fifealde curious note: cf. Aztek papalotl

*lu:s- [bug] CGer lu:s- Gal llewen,pl.llau

*slei- [slug] Grk leimax Russian slimak=Czech slimak Lat limax VP slayx=Lit sliekas[intestinal worm] Lat lumbricus < ? * sloimobrikos OE sla: ON *slá [slow-worm]

*longwhr-[intestinal worm?] Lat lumbricus[minhoca] Gal llyngyr[vermes intestinais]

*deigh- [tick] Armenian ti:z [bug] Ir dega [stag-beetle] CGer ti:k-,tikkan

*pezdh-[louse] Lat pe:dis Grk phtheiros <*pzdherios Avestan pazdu-[small insect]

*wek´- OSl *vüsi=Rus voch=Cz vesh=Pol wesz[louse] CGer wigjan[beetle, insect]

*arHk(s)n- "spider" Lat ara:nea Grk arakhnê,rhax Osl raku "crab" < *arku? (or arku < Harku ~karku ?)

*k-a:pxi- [drone] OSl c^api Lat a:pes Grk ke:phe:n

*dhra:n- Grk anthre:ne: [wild bee] English drone

*kmero-/no- [hard-shelled animal] Lat camurrus CGer humaraz [crayfish] Grk kammaros [lobster] San kamathah [turtle]

*t(w)î- [mosquito?, tiny insect?] Lat ti:nea [moth] Grk silphe:,tilphe: [cockroach], se:t- [mosquito] OSl tilja

*ku:l-ik [long-legged mosquito?] Lat cu:lex VIrl cuil

*kil- [loud-noised insect, cricket, cicada] Grk killos [cicada] San cilli [cricket]

*le:k- Lat locusta [locust, lobster] lacerta [lizard]

*s-ker-xi Lit skerys "lobster" Grk karis "shrimp"

I'm ready to discuss it. Please send me your comments and corrections...