From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 5573
Date: 2001-01-16
----- Original Message -----
From: <pva@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 6:47 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Ingui
> Thanks Chris,
>
> This is strange because there appears to some type of Oenghus-Angus-
> Ingui connection. I'm sure this is ground you've covered already,
> however I may have something new farther down. It appears that Angus
> has a few parallels with the Norse Frea-Ingui deity. Oenghus is said
> to be a deity of the Tuatha Dé Danann that resided in an ancient
> burial mound. The association with the Tuatha makes Oenghus a divine
> foreigner. Traditionally, the burial mound where Angus dwelled is
> Bruigh na Boinne (Newgrange Ireland), a large tumulus near Tara. See
> here...
>
> http://homepage.tinet.ie/~knowth/newgrange.htm
>
> Because a burial mound is referred to as his court or temple he was
> likely a god of the dead. Oenghus is also referred to as a god of
> beauty, youth, wit, charm, and love. The tradition of Oenghus (as god
> of the dead) and the swan princes may have something to do with
> fertility and seasonal death/rebirth. There are also several other
> traditions of Oenghus as a lover, followed by death. In a nutshell
> he's described as a primal Apollo-like deity who is primarily the
> lord of love and death. It appears that because of Angus' association
> with love and sex a lot of his tradition was suppressed in the early
> Christian era.
>
> >From Helgi T. Dagsson Freyr: A God and Society, The name Freyr is a
> title that means Lord, it doesn't appear to have any direct
> relationship to the deity. When the actual name is mentioned, which
> is very rarely, it normally is Ingui. I don't think the Freyr-Ingui
> association has anything to do with twins, rather there may have been
> some form of name taboo? Regardless the Freyr was a god of fertility,
> peace, prosperity, sex, sacred kingship, battle and death. Freyr was
> known throughout the Nordic world, however his cult was centered in
> southern Sweden. His totem animal was the boar and the stallion was
> his servant. The best known example of a Freyr representation is the
> small silver figurine from Södermanland (Viking Age). From the
> Celtic
> and Roman Iron Ages, there are also the phallic wooden figures found
> in the bogs of Denmark, which, if they do not represent this god
> himself, showed a deity of very similar character.
>
> The strange part is first Freyr-Ingui was considered a foreign god
> brought from Denmark and his arrival is associated with a wagon.
> However, even more mysterious is that inhumation burial in a tumulus,
> and not cremation was very strongly associated with Freyr. It seems
> to represent his realm, abode, or personal temple. That's extremely
> odd because cremation was by far the dominant form of burial in the
> Nordic cultural sphere. Actually cremation is a hallmark of Nordic
> culture for the period when Freyr was important. However, inhumation
> would be more typical of the late latene culture to the west, or the
> culture that preceded the Late Bronze Age Urnfield complex (this
> culture is also associated with the wide spread construction of
> tumulus burial mounds throughout temperate Europe). Although the
> Urnfield label is receded after about 800 BCE the same basic burial
> patterns remain, all but unchanged, in some areas as late as the 11th
> century CE. Because the tumuli burial aspect is so strong, Freyr-
> Ingui is often associated with natural mounded landforms such as
> hills.
>
> The reason I'm addressing this issue is because Pliny, writing about
> events that occurred between the end of the 1st c. BCE and beginning
> of the 1st c. CE in north central Europe, makes a fine distinction
> between two geopolitical-military alliances. One he associated with
> Ingui-, (which he implies is far older and based in Denmark) the
> other Vandi- (implied as more recent and based in Scandinavian). The
> interesting element here is that many if not all of the tribal,
> confederated, place, and personal names mentioned in association
> (through Pliny, Tacitus, and Plutarch) with the Ingui- corporate are
> either Gallic or Brythonic in origin. In contrast the tribal names
> tied to the Vandi- are clearly Nordic. The situation is similar when
> Tacitus writes about the same or slightly later period, in the
> annuals, however a somewhat different view is found in his Germania,
> which focuses on the situation about 25 to 50 years later. Here, the
> Ingui- distinction is no longer recognized. From Ptolemy, 100 years
> later still, the Nordic element was clearly dominant and the Gallic
> or Brythonic names are either absent or viewed as references no
> longer in common use.
>
> When I couldn't find a direct Gaelic or Brythonic root for Oenghus-
> Angus, and no obvious Nordic root for Ingui- I realized that although
> they may be different words, both were derived from a older
> linguistic base, possibly proto-IE root. I checked several regional
> none-IE sources with no luck as well. I can see the logic behind the
> Oenghus as Oino-gusto equation, however the Ingui as engW or yem-ko-
> association appears tentative at best. In this respect would it make
> a difference if an evaluation of Ingui- was made more along Goidelic-
> proto-Italic lines rather than Nordic? Second could Yngui-Ingui-Angui
> represent a relatively late Nordization of a proto-Q Celt root word?
> It seems strange that these deities appear to have similar attributes
> and superficially sounding names, yet there is no connection at the
> proto-IE level. Any thoughts?
>
>
> Joesph
>
>
>
>
>