Re: [tied] Celtic *p > zero // IndoTyr *p > Tyr *f ??

Velchns = Vulcanus ? <*Welk- "to flame, to burn, to shine" cf. Sans.
varcas-, Ossetic Kurdalaegon (<Kurd-arya-vargon), ON Völundr

I think all Etruscan theonyms with s-endings are of Italic origin.
Cf. Fufluns < *Populo:nos
Velchans < *Velcanos
Selvans < *Selvanos
Sethlans < *Se:tlanos?

----- Original Message -----
From: Glen Gordon <glengordon01@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:37 AM
Subject: [tied] Celtic *p > zero // IndoTyr *p > Tyr *f ??


>
> Miguel on Celtic *p > something...
> >I don't think /f/ is a necessary intermediate step. The development
> >might have been /p/ (phonetic [ph], as in English, or Welsh) > /h/ >
> >zero. Similarly in Armenian.
>
> Don't mean to be alarmist or radical or anything but... I was thinking
about
> the likeliest evolutional path of IndoTyrrhenian's phonological system to
> Tyrrhenian (and ultimately to Etruscan). I haven't found conclusive stuff
on
> the evolution of IndoTyr *p yet, but I get the feeling that:
>
> IndoTyrrhenian Tyrrhenian Etruscan
> *p *f /f,v/ ?
> *b *p /p/
>
> By having *p become *f, it completes a "fricative series" consisting of *x
> (from uvularized velar stops, distinct from the IndoTyrrhenian laryngeal
> written as *h) and *s' (from palatalized non-fortis dental stops).
> Basically, the Tyrrhenian phonological system would contain the following:
>
> *f *x *s' [fricative]
> *p *k *t [lenis (plain)]
> (*p:) *k: *t: [fortis]
>
>
> And then I get to wonderin'... Could there be a possible phonetic
> relationship between IE *PerkWnos and Etruscan /Velchns/ (< ? Tyrrhenian
> *Felkena-se)?
>
> At any rate, I've also found that treating mediofinal fortis stops (*t:
and
> *k:) like doubled plain stops or geminates works best when it comes to
some
> reshuffling of syllabic boundaries that require *CVC syllables only...
>
> eg: IndoTyr *deuk:e "daughter" (CVC-CV)
> => *d'eukke (CVCC-CV !!!)
> => Tyr *s'ekke (CVC-CV)
> => Etr s'ec
>
> The geminate thing is eerily Uralic-ish looking.
>
> Anyways, if Tyrrhenian dialects (excluding the one that gave Etruscan and
> Lemnian) spread to Europe BEFORE IndoEuropean did (starting 6000 BCE or
so),
> as I personally am led to believe, an early Tyrrhenian *p->*f change might
> be relevant to the later Celtic and Germanic changes (both soften *p -> *f
> or *h/zero, afterall). Areal influence, anyone?
>
> Just thoughts. Feel free to crush them :)
>
> - gLeN
>
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