Glen wrote
> You as well as Janeen seem to be confused between what the
Sumerians would
> LATER contribute and the earlier inventions that would help to
build the
> Sumerian civilisation in the first place.
>
> First, there is no need to lump writing in with this. Ever since
1961, when
> Professor Nicolae Vlassa of the Cluj University found tablets in
Tartaria
> dated to 4700 BCE, written in the Vinca script, the true date and
time of
> the first instance of writing has been revisited, as well as its
genuine
> inventors. So, we must automatically question whether Sumerians
truely
> developed writing independantly from the Vinca culture.
It would appear that they did just as the Chinese and Mexicans were
to do later. Besides the Tartaria "script" is not known to be a
true "writing" and failed to survive. Certainly it can hardly be
said to be a vehicle for carrying a whole literature.
Sumerian seems to have independently evolved from the Boule; cones,
balls, and cylendars of clay used in accounting purposes to record
agricultural produce, in a simple form of banking. Enclosed in an
envelope of a clay tablet, inscriptions told of what was inside and
who it was for. There are no intermediary scripts between Tartaria
and Sumer, so we are back to Sumer.
> The complex astrology as we find with the Sumerians is to be
attributed to
> themselves, of course, but to emphatically assume that earlier
peoples did
> not associate divinities with stars is nothing short of a religious
belief
> in itself.
I am not saying that, but the Sumerian Anunaki had a far greater
depth of astronomica and astrological lore than any other divinities
recorded elsewhere.
There is little doubt that IE knew of law and justice (Hittite
> law concerning IE "wolf-marriage" for example: /Zik-wa URBARRA-as
kistat/
> "You have become a wolf"; *Dye:us is firmly associated with law and
order as
> well)... so I'm not sure where you're going with "jurisprudence"
here.
Justice is a widespread phenomenon, but it usually was limited
to "Third Party Mediation" by the dominant authority (Chief or War
Leader), in most "non state chiefdoms" such as the PIE seem to have
had. The complex collection of "evidence" and the creation of a
written Code of Laws, both necessary with Jurisprudence, seem to have
begun with the Sumerians. Nothing like either has yet been fiound
with PIE (although the Gaelic Brehon Law is pretty impressive).
Urban
> living is hardly Sumerian-specific but rather an automatic
evolution of
> agricultural peoples.
Do tell. Papua New Guinea has had agriculture since 12,000 BCE, not
too many cities there Glen. Sub Saharan Africa had agriculture at
least from 2,500 BCE and apart from the Sudan and a narrow strip
along the East Coast, no cities there either. And what about the
Amazon? Or the Carribean? Or East Coast USA prior to Mayflower? Or
Polynesia? All farming Glen, no cities. Urban living only started
millennia after farming, and then only in areas dependent upon
hydraulic engineering which was invented, yes, you guessed it, first
in the land of Sumeria. True farming had to come first, but it is
not enough to explain urban life.
Finally, Dilmun is not a proof of anything since the
> ultimate source of this and many myths are still a matter of
theory,
> assumption and heresay, which is in fact the very topic we are
discussing!
> >Yes, cities quickly depleted the local region [...] This spread
> >Sumerian influence far and wide. [...] Sargon spread Sumerian
from
> >Oman to Anatolia and from Lebanon to Iran.
>
> Sargon is not "pre-Sumerian" and therefore outside of this topic.
Keep
> focused.
No Sargon is post phase I of Sumerian and pre Ur III (phase II). But
his "Empire of the Four Quarters" sread Sumerian influence far and
wide, to influence later Iranian, Anatolian and Greek civilisations,
and hence all other Indo-European peoples too.
Hope this helps
John