Re: [tied] IE *-su and the Nostratic "equational" marker *-n :)

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 4806
Date: 2000-11-22

Well, some brand-new IE cases make their debut here, including the allative based (only?) on a very conjectural interpretation of the Hittite "directive", and a separate form of Abl.pl. (Hittite is the only language with a Dat./Abl.pl. contrast). I'd like to see some justification for Dat.pl. *-oi-os as different from Instr.pl. *-o:is. The Dat./Instr. forms are based on very meagre evidence (with a Indo-Iranian centre of gravity); they don't match too well between different branches, and could well be analysed differently. I agree that *-s was used as a pluraliser in Acc., Dat. and Instr. forms, but the facts are messier than you make them look in your all-encompassing symmetries.
 
Apart from all that, the Loc.pl. *-si/*-su occurs only in the eastern branches of IE (Indo-Iranian, Balto-Slavic and Greek), and we have real agreement only between Indo-Iranian and Slavic. Of course we need something to fill the gaps in our tables of PIE declensions, but to claim that these forms are really PIE is more than the comparative method entitles us to. We get away with it only because the native speakers of PIE can't protest.
 
Piotr
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
To: cybalist@egroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] IE *-su and the Nostratic "equational" marker *-n :)

But I believe it is quite clear that plurality, in agglutinative
fashion, is indicated by *-s (or rather, I would maintain, *-sw):

                                                   <non-o>   <o-stems>
acc.pl. = acc.sg. (*-m)  + *-s       -> *-ns        *-ns      *-o-ns
dat.pl. = all.sg. (*-o)  + *-s       -> *-os        *-bhi-os  *-oi-os
abl.pl. = abl.sg. (*-od) + *-s       -> *-os        ,,        ,,
ins.pl. = ins.sg. (*-h1) + *-s       -> *-h1s       *-bhi-:s  *-oi-:s
loc.pl. = loc.sg. (*-0)  + *-s + *-i -> *-si/*-su   *-su      *-oi-su

I think this works quite nicely (never mind if it was *-s or *-sw).
Additionally, it tells us that the *-i of the loc. and dat. sg. is not
part of the ending, but an additional deictic element, which is
interesting (and confirmed by the endingless locatives and the Hitt.
allative in -a).