Re: [tied] Re: IAPETOS x JAFETH

> Magog is often seen as the Massagetae (Eastern Saka), although personally

I wonder if better references are to be found.>
Someone link Magog (and Gog) with Gyges, king of Lydia.

<Tubal is difficult, I haven't found one that works well for this one.>
Tubal is linked by Robert Graves with the Tybarenni.

> Gen 10:13 And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and

Naphtuhim, Ludim is the Lydians.>
Lydians also appeared as LUD, son of SHEM.

Perhaps IAPETOS can be seen related to EA? Hittites adopted EA as EASH
(AASH, AAYASH).
The Greek-Argive Genealogy of Inakhos offspring have some similarities with
Noah children.
Io was ancestor of Egyptians, Lybians, Phoenicians, Cretans, Cilicians and
Arabians.
Joao SL

----- Original Message -----
From: John Croft <jdcroft@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 5:19 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: IAPETOS x JAFETH


> João wrote:
>
> > Is it well understood the Biblical criteria in divinding people
> into three
> > sons of Noah? For example, I think Kham was ancestor of African,
> Arabian and
> > Canaanite people, including Cretan and Babylonian (Nimrod). Yaphet
> was
> > ancestor of Mediterranean people. Shem was ancestor of Oriental or
> Northern
> > people, Persians (or Elamites?), Assyrian and Lydians.
>
> This three way split of peoples represented an ethnic view of the
> world of 6th century Jews. Exposed to the huge histories of the
> Baylonians and Eyptians around tem, they felt they needed to invent
> similar views and place themselves and their neighbours within them.
> As the Bivle says
>
> Gen 10:1 Now these [are] the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem,
> Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
>
> Gen 10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan,
> and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
>
> Gomer (otherwise called Kimmer) are the Cimmerians, who burst into
> the consciousness of the Middle East during the Assyrian Empire.
>
> Magog is often seen as the Massagetae (Eastern Saka), although
> personally I wonder if better references are to be found.
>
> Madai is the Medes.
>
> Javan is Ionians = Greeks.
>
> Tubal is difficult, I haven't found one that works well for this one.
>
> Meshech is the Muski, who confronted the Assyrians in their attempted
> invasion of Anatolia. I suspect that the Tubal were involved here
> too.
>
> Tiras = Tyrrsenoi (Ty-Rasena) our good frends the Etruscans.
>
> It is interesting that these are basicaly circum black sea folk. Is
> it coincidence that these are the first people mentioned after Noah
> and the flood. By the way the etymology of Noah has been linked to
> the Hurrian NHMZULI. So another good connection northward in the
> Harran region. I have a whole theory on this if anyone is interested.
> :-)
>
> Gen 10:3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
>
> Askenaz is the Scythians. Ripath and Togarmah I understand are
> derivable from Scythian tribes.
>
> Gen 10:4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and
> Dodanim.
>
> Elisha looks like Wilusa (Illios). Tashish has been lnked to
> Tartessos in Spain (there are biblical references to the Phoenician
> Ships of Tarshish that make sense in this context). Dodanim =
> Dardani (illyrian tribes already spoken of by me in other contexts.)
>
> Gen 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their
> lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their
> nations.
>
> Gen 10:6 And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and
> Canaan.
>
> Cush is the Nubian Kush, although Rohl recently has suggested
> Mesopotamian connections which I feel are too far fetched.
>
> Mizraim + Egypt (Musri). It is interesting that the Bible makes a
> clear destinction between Upper Egypt (Misraim) and Phut (lower
> Egypt), indicating that it was put together in the Iron Age when
> Upper Egypt was ruled by the Pharaoh and Lower Egypt ruled by the
> priests of Thebes, and the two were autonomous.
>
> Canaan is transparent. Nubia, Egypt and Canaan being related seems
> to be a vague memory of the New Kingdom Empire of Egypt.
>
> Gen 10:7 And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and
> Raamah, and Sabtecha: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
>
> These are all South Arabian tribal affiliations. Seba = Sheba, etc.
>
> Gen 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the
> earth.
>
> his is the Mesopotamian connection Rohl makes much of. Nimrod has
> many affiliations. Most see him as a legendary memory of Naram Sin
> of Akkad.
>
> Gen 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is
> said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
>
> Gen 10:10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and
> Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
>
> Erech is Uruk, Accad is Akkad. Shinar is Sumer. This area is one
> the Bible writers were familiar with from their captivity in Babylon.
>
> Gen 10:11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh,
> and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
>
> Gen 10:12 And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same [is] a great
> city.
>
> Gen 10:13 And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and
> Naphtuhim,
>
> Ludim is the Lydians. How the Bible saw these linked to Egpt is
> anyones guess. Anamim is the name the Hebrews usually give to the
> commoner (anawim), although other etymologies are no doubt possible.
>
> Gen 10:14 And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,)
> and Caphtorim.
>
> Caphtorim = Keftiu (Crete) and Philistim is the Philistines. Again
> these linkages are confused, which show the bible writers had no real
> conception of cultural or real linguistic connections. Obviously the
> connection of Philistines with the peoples of the isles had been
> forgotten by the time the Bible was written.
>
> It then goes into the descendents of Canaan, which would be of little
> interest to this list.
>
> I would be interested in what else others on this list make of this
> Biblical "Book of Nations".
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>