Re: [tied] First iron swords on mass scale

From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 4250
Date: 2000-10-12

<Greek has si:de:ros/-on is no doubt a loanword, perhaps somehow related to Latin si:dus, -eris 'constellation, star(s)' (magnetite = star-stone??).>
Can si:de:ros be related to Northern European words for "silver"? Germanic *silubram (<*sirubram), Lithuanian sidabras (*sirabra-), Slavic sirebro. So, si:de:ros might be a dissimilation of si:re:ros.
 
 
Baltic and Slavic have related terms: Lithuanian gel(e)z^is, OPrussian gelso, Slavic z^elEzo < B-Sl *gele(:)Zo-. I'm not sure how to analyse them (*gWelh-eg-??).
Cognates of Grk Khalkos "bronze"?
 
<Latin ferrum is sometimes connected with the verb root *dHers- 'dare, be bold, violate' (English dare, durst, Sanskrit dharSa-).>
Did Latin ferrum come from semitic *BRZ (through an intermediary *bhersom?).
 
Joao SL
Rio
----- Original Message -----
From: Piotr Gasiorowski
To: cybalist@egroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] First iron swords on mass scale

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] First iron swords on mass scale


Primitive techniques of smelting iron ores were available possibly as early as the third millennium BC, and native iron from meteorites must have been treasured sporadically since time immemorial (not that it was widely available or practically important, but iron jewellery from early Egyptian tombs proves that meteoritic iron was processed by hammering). What the Anatolians developed was a controlled technique for making decent-quality iron in large quantities. Those early alloys were not true steels, technically speaking, but low-carbon wrought iron.
 
There is no demonstrably PIE word for iron (wrought or meteoritic), let alone steel, though it's possible that the PIE neuter *xajes- could mean 'iron, any metal' in addition to 'copper'. At any rate the Indo-Iranian reflexes (Skt. ayas-) developed the meaning 'iron', cf. also Germanic *ais-o:n- = English ore.
 
Germanic *i:sa(r)na- (Eisen, iron), most likely borrowed from Celtic (*eisarno-), may be a derivative of *isxro- 'strong, powerful' rather than of *xajes-.
 
Greek has si:de:ros/-on is no doubt a loanword, perhaps somehow related to Latin si:dus, -eris 'constellation, star(s)' (magnetite = star-stone??).
 
Baltic and Slavic have related terms: Lithuanian gel(e)z^is, OPrussian gelso, Slavic z^elEzo < B-Sl *gele(:)Zo-. I'm not sure how to analyse them (*gWelh-eg-??).
 
Latin ferrum is sometimes connected with the verb root *dHers- 'dare, be bold, violate' (English dare, durst, Sanskrit dharSa-).
 
Hittite hapalkija- is non-IE. Like Hurrite hapalkinu it was borrowed from Hattic hapalki 'iron'.
 
Piotr
 
 

Michal wrote:
 
I am aware that iron was occasionally used long before the so called "Iron Age" started. But my question about the first massive use of swords made of iron (or primitive steel) remains unanswered.

By the way, what names were used for "steel" in Anatolian, Greek, Egyptian, Phoenician, Arameic, Hebrew and Akkadian languages? Do all these names have a common (IE?) origin?
And what about "iron"?