Re: [tied] Old Europe & the IEs.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rex H. McTyeire

To: cybalist@egroups.comSent: Sunday, September 03, 2000 5:30 AMSubject: Re: [tied] Old Europe & the IEs.

 Thanks, Rex, for your geographic clarification. According to Pompeius Trogus, the Bastarns were fighting Dacians on the Lower Danube ca. 200 BC. Roman historians locate them all the way along the external slope of the Carpathian crescent. They were divided into a number of tribes, one of which, the Peucini, are connected with the Isle of Peuke (exact location uncertain, but apparently somewhere within the delta). In the first and second centuries (AD) the Bastarns were still a threat to the NE provinces of the Empire, allying themselves with the Dacians under Burebista and again during Trajan's campaigns. Their relations with Rome were highly unstable; they continued to clash with Romans during the Marcomannian wars in Marcus Aurelius' times, but I'm sure there were Bastarnian mercenaries in the imperial army as well. In fact, the Bastarns seem to have been in and out of Dacia. In the 3rd century, when the Vandals and the Goths began to drive them out from their sub-Carpathian homeland, some of the surviving Bastarns sheltered on the Roman side of the limes. Early Germanic history is often presented in such a way that the Goths seem to be the first and only Germanic adventurers who reached the Black Sea. This is certainly wrong. The Sciri and the Bastarns (who may have migrated from the Lower Elbe) were in Ukraine more than four hundred years before the Goths. By the 3rd c. BC all of central and S Poland (except for a few Celtic enclaves in Silesia and around Krakow) was inhabited by the Lugians, a union of Germanic tribes dominated by the Vandals, so a map drawn at that time would have shown a continuous belt of Germanic occupation stretching from the Ukrainian coast and the mouth of the Danube to Scandinavia. Piotr  Note for Piotr on Bastarns:  I have a map of the political situation after Roman consolidation of Dacia and Moesia showing tribal groups between the Roman border (extending a bit north of the delta) and the Dneister.   Reflected:  Bastarns  (Did they move north to avoid Romans?  Or by Island do we mean land between two rivers?),  Free Dacians, Roxolani, Tyragetae (Dneister Getae?)  Carps  (Carpi-Daci), Costobocs.

    The Bastarnae may have survived, in the area of Thrace (where they had been settled in 280 AD) until the 6th century.  Emperor Justinian founded a castle near Odessa called Bastarnae.
                                                            Steve