Re: [tied] Old Europe & the IEs.

I think Piotr is saying the approach from the Steppe into Central Europe is not a piece of cake.

Is the approach up the Danube from its delta really feasible as an 'invasion' route? You have to detour out of the Danube valley, presumably to the south into Bulgaria, to get around the gorge of the Iron Gate.

The Danube and its delta is a major barrier. For an invasion, you need to build bridges, or have control of 'Moldavia' and whatever seasonal fords there are on the rivers flowing into the Danube delta.

Aside from the Dneister/San/Uzh approach, the next possibility would require one to negotiate the Pripet. East of that, you have the Volga, which the Uralics obviously used, and who know who else.

The archaeological record does record a strong kurgan presence along the Tisza, as well as up in the Globular Amphora region. This exercise in European hydrology does have a point.

Mark.

From: Piotr Gasiorowski

Mark writes: I see there is a Moldova River, a tributary of the Siret. Yes, I finally found the Siret. The name 'Moldavia/Moldova' is confusing, almost wantonly applied. This is just as confusing as 'Morava', which shows up as the name of two distinct Danube tributaries.

River-names Along with Sava, Drava, Alava, Arava, etc. Morava is a very common hydronymic formation; names of this type, derived from recognisable IE roots (cf. marsh < OE merisc < *mar-isk-a- < *mor-), are extremely widespread, being part of Hans Krahe's "Old European hydronymy". Because of its geographical distribution, the ending -ava is often considered to be the characteristically 'Illyrian' development of *-ew-o-.

Drava is certainly from *drew-o- (*dreu- 'run' gave rise to all manner of river-names, esp. *dru-ont(-j-a:) 'Running [River]', attested from Yorkshire to former East Prussia). There is also the hydronymic suffix -a:w(j)o- (perhaps related to *au- 'spring, watercourse', as in Lithuanian avuots 'spring' or Old Indic avani- 'river'), found e.g. in Polish Opawa < *ap-a:w-o- (also in numerous Celtic, Venatic and Illyrian hydronyms). Morava might therefore be *mor-a:w-o- 'Marshy River'.

The name of the River Moldova (after which the country is named) may be connected with *mld-u- (Skt. mRdu-, Latin mollis < *mld-w-i-) 'soft, mild, gentle'. When the former "Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic" became an independent country in 1991, "Republica Moldova" became its official name, which is why Moldova is now also the preferred English variant ("Moldavia" is associated with the Soviet past). Modern Moldova is roughly coextensive with historical Bessarabia.

I've also finally untangled what happens up there where Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia, Romania and Hungary meet. Yes, the Dneister, Tisza and San Rivers are all very very close to each other. I assume this is how the Huns and Magyars, and everyone else who came from the east entered Hungary?

The Tisa connection is more problematic, as you have to cross one of the rather difficult East Carpathian passes to get there. The easiest shortcut to the green grasslands of the Hungarian Plain is the province of Uzhhorod (historical Ruthenia), more or less where the Dniester, San and Uzh rivers begin. Though less accessible than the more important coastal route from S Ukraine via the Lower Danube basin, it was certainly used by numerous migrating peoples in the past (including Sarmatians, Gepids and other Germanic tribes, Avars, Huns and Magyars).

Piotr