From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 3423
Date: 2000-08-28
----- Original Message -----From: Dennis PoulterSent: Monday, August 28, 2000 3:31 PMSubject: Re: [tied] Danaan as ethnonym.Very little is known about the original terms used by the Slavs to refer to themselves; the ancient ethnonyms "Sclaveni" (= *slovEne) and "Anti" (which were not the same people) may reflect two such terms (Western and Eastern, respectively), and the fact that Germanic peoples applied the term "Veneti" (Uenethi, Winidi, Wenedi, etc.) to their Slavic neighbours further complicates matters. The numerous Slavic ethnonyms based on *slov(-En)- most likely derive from *kleu- 'hear; word, fame, etc.' The derivative was presumably supposed to mean 'those who have words (i.e. speak comprehensibly)' (cf. *nem-Ic-i 'those who can't speak' = Germans). As for the term "Germani", there are several different and inconclusive theories about its origin, which is quite strange if we consider that it seems to have been coined in historical times. One thing is for sure: the Germani did not call themselves "Germani", and if they used the descriptive term thiuda- (or liuda-, for that matter), it was usually in combination with something else -- "Such & Such Folk" rather than "The Folk". However, Deutsch < *thiud-isk-a- 'Folk-ish'; also, the Teutons who accompanied the Cimbri on their southward migration (ca. 120-101 BC) had a "folk" name, though perhaps it was some Celtic foreigners who'd stuck this label on them.PiotrDennis wrote:I can accept that there may have been people who called themselves the "River Folk" based on /danu/, but I find the idea of this as a general ethnonym hard to accept. There may well have been others who called themselves "Highlanders", or "Cattle People" or whatever. And, as an ethnonym, Dan- doesn't seem particularly common amongst the IE's, even though its occurrences may be widely spread.I can't comment on Glen's reply because I know nothing about the Nenets/Enets, however your /Teuta-/ type names seem to rather support my opposition to this idea. I don't think it's particularly remarkable that various peoples or groups just called themselves "The People". And even there, it was the Irish who named the Tuatha De Danann. And who and when first started using terms such as Dutch or Deutsch? The Dutch don't call themselves Dutch. Was there ever a people who called themselves Teutons or their language Teutonic, other than the medieval Latin scribes who used the term "teodisca lingua"? Surely it's significant that the Germanic peoples who remained outside the Carolingian Empire - the English, Danes, Norwegians and Swedes - don't employ a derivative of this term.Likewise for the Slavs - wasn't it the Germans who coined this as a general term for all the various Slavic peoples? No doubt it is based on a slavic word, but did the Slavs use it for themselves, or did just one particular group call themselves by this name?Cheers