Re: Athena and Assorted Oddments

Rex mate, it is sooo gooood to have you back.

To your post below, I can only say a big yes!

Just one thing. From the Egptian 18th dynasty onwards, in their
expansion into Asian Palestine and Syria, Egypt was THE IMPERIAL
power. Young sons of local potentates were taken as "hostage" and
educated in Egypt before returning home to take up the reigns in
their
state. There was a great attempt to fit local traditions into an
Egyptian mould. Thus local Asherah's, or Astartes were given
Egyptian
hairdresses and Hathor's Horns, and the Syro-Canaanite mother-
father-son trinities were all equated with Osirus, Isis, Horus.
Their
enemies (Mot, Yam etc) all became Set. This fusion and confusion is
the danger that I was referring to in my two previous posts.

Nevertheless thanks for your post. I strongly concur except for this
tiny part of it.

John

> > (John Croft's) The derivation of Athena from At??-Hanahana is

"fortement douteux", to say the least.

>
> I'm not sure I track with that either, but I did like the placing

of Hanahana as pre-Hittite, and I am not sure if she is limited to
Hattic

>
> >If she were derived from Hanahana, this would mean either that

the Greeks brought her with them, or >that she was already there
amongst the "Pelasgians".

>
> I do like the third clause, Dennis, but I think even the

Pelasgians found her already there. She is neolithic.

>
> >There is no evidence to support either hypothesis. Indeed, if we

are to believe Herodotos (and Rex), >the Pelasgians did not have a
complex mythology, but instead preferred to lie under oak trees,
eating >psychotropic plants, watching the birds and listening to the
wind.

>
> Herodotus and I separate on the point. To be fair to him, he was

relaying to us what he heard and his limited comprehension of it. I
believe it was very complex. Actually, Glen gets close in his
sarcasm:

>
> The Tree, first of all, is associated with the creation of the

world.

> Second, the Tree is designed to seperate the watery underworld

from the airy

> sky and to provide a middle realm called earth where all humans

live. Thus,

> the Tree runs through all three realms (Sky/Earth/Water). Beings

of all

> kind, not just humans, supposedly live in this tree: gods, forest

spirits,

> nymphs, John, etc. Fourth, if we stop to pause for a moment how

silly it is

> to put gods and goddesses in trees, we might come to a

revelation.
It makes

> more sense that _birds_ should live in trees.
>
> Birds....just like the ones on the Etruscan shields.
>
> >I would remind John, that Linear B is Greek, not Pelasgian,
>
> Since we aren't really sure what Pelasigian was and what the

relationship to Greek was: Is that a fair statement?

>
> >so why is it surprising that there is no mention of "Pelasgian"

Titans?

>
> Is not the battle of the Titans possibly an allusion to the

complex issue of syncretization between large groups of similar, even
distantly related deities in one area consolidated under one leader
or
state. The resolution of a social problem? Like the Hittites
incorporating a mother goddess of some of their population into a new
larger pantheon relegated to grandmother status.

>
> >Coming as they do from the end of the Mycenean period, whatever

gods are mentioned in the tablets >cannot be adduced as being
pre-Greek. In the same vein, Linear B cannot be used to draw any

>inferences on pre-Greek Cretan mythology.
>
> They were invented on the spot instantly with followers eager to

accept them?

>
> . god-equaling Pelasgians sheltering Egyptian and Phoenician

refugees, who then by some unknown mechanism made themselves their
rulers.

>
> How about the mechanism of previous relationship. As many

references to Danaus (Others???) suggest a North African birth,
others also suggest he was born to "Greek" royals, and decry the
returning sons of Palaecthon after generations abroad being
"barbarized".

>
> João's equation of Yam with Poseidon is very interesting. This

would put Poseidon into a relationship with Egyptian Set, via the
identification of Yam with Set, particularly in Hyksos times, and to
whom the Hyksos are said to have been particularly devoted. So John
may have a point in seeing this as a struggle, but with reference to
the Hyksos invasion of and eventual expulsion from Crete.

>
> Have you seen the latest from the digs in Avaris? The

Hyksos/Crete
relationship may be the reverse of your position. A lot of Minoan
art
is coming out of Delta ground, including bull dancers.

>
> Given that there is no evidence of Greek settlements in the

Levant
at this period, the natural conclusion is that these myths were
brought to Greece by the Levantines.

>
> The Romans adopted a pattern of street layouts with parallel

controlled N/S orientation and central plazas for temples and markets
that was then applied throughout Europe and continues in US city
planning. It was taken from Etruscan models. Curiously similar
layouts predating the Roman province have been found in the Levant
and
nowhere else in the ME.

>
> La Revedere;
> Rex H. McTyeire
> Bucharest, Romania
> <rexbo@...>
>
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

>
>
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------