Re: [tied] IE for BAT, LIZARD/NEWT and FROG/TOAD?

----- Original Message -----

From: João Simões Lopes Filho

To: cybalist@egroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 10:00 PM

Subject: [tied] IE for BAT, LIZARD/NEWT and FROG/TOAD?

Hi, João,

 

Very interesting.

 

*gWebH- for 'frog' has been suggested before, though obviously Latin bu:fo: cannot derive from three sources at the same time, the gemination in the Germanic reflexes (not the most widespread words for 'frog', incidentally) would have to be explained somehow, and the long *e: in the form ancestral to Slavic *Zaba (Z = "zh") < gW(H)e:b(H)- is problematic too. Any 'frog' word with labials (cf. Skt. bheka) or labiovelars in it may be onomatopoeic (which doesn't exclude its IE origin but it sure to lead to etymological complications).

 

As for Greek batrakhos, it may help you to know the variants that occurred in various Ancient Greek dialects: bratakhos, Ionic bathrakos, botrakhos , brotakhos , Cypriot broukhetos , Phocian briankhonE, Pontic babakos. They are also dangerously close to the Greeks' conventional frog onomatopoeia (Brekekekek! koaks! koaks!)

 

Polish nietoperz is a regular reflex of Proto-Slavic *netopyrI < *nekWto-pu:rjo-, as evidenced by the remaining Slavic languages (also Russian netopyr', Slovene netopír, etc.). The second constituent is puzzling, but definitely not reconstructable as *per(i)-. Your *per- is all the more suspect because you make it all but disappear from the Latin and Greek comparanda. The cross-linguistic typology of bat names suggests that Slavic *pyrI should mean something like 'flapper' or 'flyer', but I haven't heard of a Slavic verb with the right meaning. Any suggestions from other Cybalist members?

 

 

Piotr

 

---

 

Is there any IE name for Bat, Lizard/Newt and Frog/Toad?

 

In my amateur research I found these possibilities...are they plausible?

 

*MOL-  OldHighGerman mol, molm "salamander, lizard" Armenian moléz "lizard" Russian mlok (< *muluku?) "newt"

*GWERDH- [frog,toad] OHG kreta "frog" Grk batrakhos (<*brathakos) "frog, Lat bruscus (<*gwordhskos), "tree frog, little frog" , bufo  (<Osc-Umb gwrdh-s-bh-on?), "toad"

*BOIDH- OldEnglish pad (<CGer paid-) "frog, paddock, Lat bufo (<OscUmb <boidhon?) "toad"

*GWÉBH- "frog,tadpole" German quabbe Dutch kwabbe OldSaxon quappa Danish kvabbe Lat bufo (<*gwobho-?) OldSlavic "aba "frog". Portuguese sapo "toad" (from same IE Iberian language? Ligurian?)

*(nokwti-) PER@... {bat, night flyer} Latin vespertilio (<*vesper-peri-tilion?) Grk nykteris (<*nykt-peris?) Czech nyetopyr Polish. nietoperz (<*nekto-peri) Lithuanian sparnis?< *s-por(n)i-(?)

 

Any clue?

Joao SL

Rio de Janeiro