Re: [tied] Re: Athenaia & Trita

Salut, John. (Joao is John in Portuguese, do you know?)

The link between At-Hana and Hannahanna is very plausible, although I'm not
sure for Anahita or Anath, but it's also possible. The problem with Greek IE
gods is that Greeks invaded Greece through many "waves", and I think the
syncretism was made by different ways in differente Greek regions.
Some of the etymologies Martin Bernal suggested (Black Athena) are very
fascinating, like APHRODITE from Pr-Wadjet, and Egyptian and Phoenician
links are also a good clue for seeking Greek myths' origins.
I think Athena's warrior role beside Zeus was a reflex of Anath beside Baal.
What I'm trying to say is that IE, Egyptian and Semitic influences were
"pasted" to a Pelasgian substratum. So, my ideas do not disagree with Athana
Cretan Goddess. And about PALLAS (Pallad-)? What the origin of this name?
She was a different goddess? Or just another epithetus? Linked with Giant
and Titan Pallas (Pallanto-)?

ABout Black Athena: Bernal suggested etymology khprr (sun-scarab Khepri) for
Apollon, but I think KhPRR could be linked to titan HYPERION (The Sun-Titan
of non-Hesiodic 14 Titans, and father of Sun in Hesiodic Titans)

To be continued...
Joao SL
Rio

----- Original Message -----
From: John Croft <jdcroft@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 1:42 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: Athenaia & Trita


> Joao salut!
>
> > Athenaia was a very complex Greek deity. She surely has Greek and
> Pre-Greek components, like Ugaritic Anath (sister/lover of Baal) and
> North Egyptian Neith ( Shield-Goddess, virgin mother of Sun Ra), but
> ... has she any IE feature?
> > I think so.
> > I think one of IE components of Greek Goddess of War and
> Intelligence Athena, was a feminine form of an IE god that has
> parallels in Indian TRITA and Norse THJALFI. This IE minor god was a
> young partner of great Thunder-God, explaining:
> > 1) Indian Trita Aptya was a young partner of Thunder-God Indra, and
> help him to defeat monster Vrtra..
> > 2) Thjalfi was a slave of Thunder-God Thorr, and help him to defeat
> giants Hrungnir and Mokkurkalfi.
> > 3) Persian myth had and analogous god THRITA, seen in name of hero
> THRAETAONA ("son of Thrita").
> > 4) Athena was named TRITOGENEIA and TRITEIA. There were many
> attempts since Antiquity to explain this epitethus. From Lake
> Tritonis? From sea-god Triton? I think this name is cognate of
> *Trito-
> "third?" or "marine?(vide Old Irish Triath "sea")
>
> Fascinating.
>
> Jacquetta Hawkes "Dawn of the Gods" is interesting on Athena. She
> suggests that she shows a clear derivation from Potnia Athana.
> Certainly Athens is the one state that managed to survive the
> Mycenaean submergence. She believes that she was especially
> associated with the ruling dynasty. This seems to be the case
> from the Pylos records, and from the role she took with
> Cecrops and Erechtheus, Odysseus and Theseus, good Ionians all.
> Athena's symbols, the cat, the snake, the bird, the pillar and the
> shield, don't come from Anath or Neith, but direct from the Cretian
> Great Goddess. Yves Bonnefoy in his seminal work on Egyptian
> and Greek mythology suggests she was one of twelve divinities
> mentioned in Mycenaean Crete, the others being Zeus Dictaeus ('of
> the Sacred Mountain"), Athana Potnia, Posedaon, Entalios (an early
> surname of Ares), Payawon ("The Striker", the future Apollo Paean),
> Erinyes (a surname of future Demeter), Eleuthiya ("she who delivers
> pregnant women"), Pade (Pandes, Phandes, "the Divine child",
> Querasiya ("the Huntress"), the Winds (Pasaya), Pipituna (divinity
> of Gacynthus) and Malineus. Athana was also called Dapuritoyo
> Potiniya ("Sovereign Goddess of the Labyrinth"). This suggests
> that an early identificaion with the Cretian Royal Palace may be a
> real one. The Huntress appears in various guises in Eastern and
> Western Crete. In Eastern Crete she is Britomarpis ("Sweet Virgin"),
> in the west Dictynna ("She of the Sacred Mountain") in which one had
> to be barefoot to enter her sanctuary. The Daughter of Minos
> (Phaedra
> ("the Brilliant One"), Ariadne ("the Very Pure One"), Acalle ("the
> Flower of Narcissus"), and Xenodice ("the Right of Guests") seem to
> titles to the fallen Great Goddess. It is interesting that despite
> the fact that the later Greeks saw the Titans as the fallen Gods of
> the autochthonous Pelasgians, not a single name of a Titan appears in
> the Linear B divinities. (The war between rival families of the Gods
> may be an old IE myth projected upon subject peoples in different
> localities)
>
> If one is forced to look for origins of Athana I would suggest
> *At-hana. *At- is found in a large number of Greek divine
> and semi-divine names, Atlas, Atlantides, Atalanta, Atlantis
> etc, which seem pre-Greek. Hanahana was a major Anatolian Khattic
> goddess - whose name appears in Ana-t (Syria), In-anna (Sumeria) and
> Ana-hita (Iran). With such a spread across such linguistic divides
> she is quite possibly the neolithic divinity that came out of
> Anatolia
> with the first farmers. The classical story that she came from
> Egyptian Neith I suspect is a late story coming from Saite times, to
> balster the Athenian-Egyptian alliance against the Persians.
> Certainly, all identification with Egyptian Neith stems from writers
> after this event, none before (Ancients were great in cementing
> political alliances with divine identifications - it goes right back
> to Sumeria if not before).
>
> Regarding your derivation of her Tritogenaia title, with the
> suggestion of identification with the Sea, reminds me of the famous
> struggle with Poseidon over the identification and dedication of
> Athens. Poseidon gave a horse, Athena gave the olive! And then
> there
> is the famous struggle with Poseidon over Odysseus's return to
> Ithaca.
> There does seem some reference to some struggle between Athena and
> Poseidon over the Sea.
>
> Poseidon has been identified as the Mycenaean Poseidas - a consort of
> Potnia. Could it be that Athena was originally a Cretan Goddess of
> the Sea (along with her many other atributes) and Poseidon was her
> consort, who later usurped her maritime role.
>
> Indeed interesting
>
> John
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