Re: [tied] Re: Formal and Informal 2nd Person

Speaking from the inside of English, we actually are a little uncomfortable at the pan-democratic first-name basis for everyone.

College students tend to address the professor as 'doctor', even when this is incorrect. My father never received a doctorate, but does have two massive masters degrees (eighty units/three years for his divinity degree, plus the second two-year masters in social work). His students often addressed him as Dr. Odegard.

English wants another word for 'doctor'. We call dentists and chiropractors 'doctor', which makes them seem more educated than they really are.

Calling someone 'Mister Smith' is too formal, but 'Bob' is too casual. There is really nothing left inbetween.

Pan Peter? Oh, the jokes you can make, Piotr Pan!

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To: cybalist@egroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 5:25 PM

Subject: [tied] Re: Formal and Informal 2nd Person

>>...When you speak Latin it may be sometimes >>embarrassing: you have to address e.g. a noble old professor >>with 2nd sg. But in Classical Latin there is simply no other way. Piotr Gasiorowski wrote: >English has no 2sg./pl. distinction, so English speakers should not >feel embarrassed... That's right, of course. But not only English speakers use Latin. E.g. I know a Japanese Latinist (very fluent in Latin indeed) and I suppose he may feel embarrassed considering the fact that in his native language he has virtually dozens of degrees of politeness. >Poles often find it embarrassing that English has so few degrees of politeness. >You switch to first-name terms too abruptly, by our standards. I'm formally >"pan (Piotr) Gasiorowski" to a casual acquaintance, "pan Piotr" to somebody >who knows me well but isn't exactly a close friend, and "Piotr" or "Piotrek" >to my friends and family, colleagues at work, friendly neighbours, etc. It's >the informal-but-polite "pan Piotr" stage that doesn't exist in English. You >can call a person "Mr (William) Fowler", "William" or "Bill", but not "Mr William". AFAIK, you can be also "pan doktor" or "pan profesor" (without your name). In English you could be barely "Mr. President";-) , I think. >This plural of respect is pretty old in the Slavic languages. >I think it's ultimately due to late Latin/early Romance influence >rather than modern French. This is really interesting. I do appreciate your opinion, but can you substantiate it in any way? My impression (nothing more) is that this plural of respect originated in the Slavic languages independently. >OK, but it may take some time. My departmental library is closed this month. Thanks in advance. Nemo (I think I can adopt this name you gave me, Piotr)