Re: [tied] Romany

----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Wier" <dawier@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Romany


> They're called the Domari in Iran too, aren't they? (The
form of
> Armenian spoken by "Gypsies" is called Lomavren.)

Yes, Iran is part of the Middle East. Actually, you can find
Domari speakers from Egypt to India, but AFAIK most of them
live in Syria, Iraq and Iran. (Dom is the sg., Domari is the
associated adjective and the name of the language, rather
closely related to Romani proper within Indic). Modern
Lomavren (used also by Lom or Bosha communities in Georgia,
Syria, Turkey and Azerbaijan) grew out of a Domari substrate
but should probably be regarded as a creolised variety of
Armenian at present (hard to tell, in fact; Lomavren
dialects have been badly neglected by linguists and remain
somewhat enigmatic).

As for the migratory speed of the Proto-Gypsies (Mark's
posting), the first wave of Dom refugees is supposed to have
left NW India in the aftermath of Mahmud of Ghanzi's
invasion in the first decades of the 11th century (200 years
before Genghis Khan). By 1050 the "Atsinganoi" had already
gained a reputation as sorcerers and fortune-tellers in
Constantinople. It took them remarkably more time (200-300
years) to establish themselves in Egypt and SE Europe. The
heyday of Gypsy expansion in Europe started about 1400. It
was also about that time that they developed some kind of
Romani solidarity and inter-group organisation.

Piotr