Re: [TIED] IE apple

----- Original Message -----

From: Glen Gordon

To: cybalist@egroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 2:26 AM

Subject: Re: [TIED] IE apple

I agree with Glen here: symmetry isn't everything. H1 was lost earlier than H2 and H3; even in Hittite only the latter two survive (merged) as h. H3 was no longer labialised in Anatolian (it would have been written hu(w) if it had), and the choice of Akkadian characters suggests that the pronunciation was [x] (velar, maybe uvular). A short-lived palatal fricative *C (your *H^) possibly existed at a lated date in various IE dialects as a reflex of *xj; such an assumptions helps to explain some syllabification problems and the word-initial contrast h/zero versus z in Greek (assuming *xj > *C > h, *j > *dZ > zeta). In fact, if it were not for its occurrence at the end of stems (as in *pelH1 or *dHeH1), it could be doubted if H1 should be reconstructed at all as a phoneme (rather than a non-phonemic onset-filler like German [?] or Cockney [h]). It must have been a very weak sound, most likely glottal rather than palatal/velar/uvular; Glen opts for [?], I prefer [h], but I don't think either of us would be able to eliminate the other possibility.

 

Piotr

 

 

 

Danny Wier:
>Hey I remember you from Nostratic-L!

'Tis I, I'm afraid. I remember you too!

>I assume that /x/ is one of the laryngeals?  Is that the same as /H/ (H1,
>H2, H3)? [...]
>The laryngeals are possibly split the same way; since the three H's
>result in the vowels e/a/o, I wouldn't doubt these being H^/H/Hw (or
>x^/x/xw).

I'm still going for:
              H1 = /?/
              H2 = /x/
              H3 = /xW/

One might argue that there is, in reality, only binary opposition of the
velars in IE (*k and *kW) and that *k^ arose from *k amidst front vowels. So
I would prefer a similar binary opposition between *H2 and *H3 (*x and *xW)
with *H1 being unrelated to the rest of the laryngeal series.

Afterall, we don't see an opposition between *H1 and *H2 like we do with *k^
and *k, do we?

- gLeN

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