Re: [cybalist] Why does Glen keep getting me wrong?

Gerry, your message is confusing. You somehow manage to be repeating all
what I have said but then pretending that it's in opposition to me. Your
sources are correct. John's, if he reads sources, are not.

> > >The Yugit people (speaking Chuchki, [...]
> >
> > ERROR #1: ...speaking _Chukchi_...
>
>Gerry: Sorry Glen: Alekseev states that the Chukchi people are >located
>on the Chukot Peninsula and that the Chukchi are also known as >Chukchee,
>Chookchiel Chukcie, (and IMO Chukchi)

Yes, and...?? John spelled it "Chuchki" with metathesis of "ch" and "k",
which overtly shows that he can't even _pronounce_ the word properly.

> > >Samoyedic (Khanty, Mansi) is intermediate and the Finno-Ungaric
> >
> > ERROR #2: Finno-Ugric, not "-Ungaric".
>
>Gerry here: Please explain the difference between Finno-Ugric and
>Finno-Ungaric. IMO, both seem to represent the same language group;
>same people too.

I've never ever heard of "Finno-Ungaric" and suspect that it's one of John's
made-up terms again. I _have_ seen "Finno-Ugric" in every source I've gotten
my hands on. Have you seen this "Finno-Ungaric" term? If it does exist, it's
at the very least too rare to be using.

> > ERROR #3: Khanty and Mansi are Finno-Ugric:Ugric:Ob-Ugric. They
> > are NOT Samoyedic at all but closer to Hungarian.
>
>Gerry: According to HOLLIS, Khanty and Mansi are Hyperborean (Arctic
>People). As per Arutiunov they are Finno Ugric. And Arutiunov concurs
>that Samoyeds are Uralic along with Yukaghir.

Again, so what? John stated that Khanty and Mansi are Samoyedic. This is
false (and apparently we can agree on this). They are Ugric. True, they all
belong within Uralic but Ugric and Samoyedic are two different branches.
It's important to know what the basics of Lx if you're going to connect
archaeology with it.

>The more well-known Samoyedic languages are Nenets, Enets and Selkup.
>Languages that you're too lazy to learn about.
>
>Gerry: Perhaps. But Arutiunov identifies Samoyedic as consisting of 1)
>North Samodic = Entsy, Nenets, Nganassan; 2) South Samodic = Selkup and
>other extinct languages.

Yes, Gerry. This is exactly what I'm saying. It would seem you're opposing
John, not me.

> > ERROR #4: Look, you goof. Yukaghir isn't a Uralic language. It's a
> > Uralic-Yukaghir language, distinct from Uralic. Common
> > knowledge.
> >
>
>Gerry: Sorry Glen. Arutiunov claims that Yukaghir is Uralic along >with
>Finno Ugric.

Yes, and we can just as well think of it that way as long as we understand
that traditional "Uralic" and Yukaghir-enriched Uralic are as different as
traditional "IE" and Anatolian-enriched IE. These two "Uralics" are thought
to be seperated by a _millenium_ or more (as well as an expected change in
location). Uralic is circa 4000 BCE and Uralic-Yukaghir is around 5000 BCE.

I seem to recall the EncBritt showing a dotted line to the name Yukaghir,
outside of traditional Uralic on their tree map in "Languages of the World"
(v.22).

- gLeN

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