Re: [cybalist] Eri-danus

----- Original Message -----
From: John Croft <jdcroft@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 04 May, 2000 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [cybalist] Eri-danus


> More kites Dennis?

Yes, but I will defend it against some of your charges, with the rejoinder
that it is only a kite.


> You wrote
>> 3. Phaeton, perhaps from Egyptian /p3 'tn/, (Aten/Aton), the solar
disc, an
>> aspect of Ra or Horus, or even /p3 tm/, the evening sun.
>> Phaeton, as the son of Helios, could perhaps also be seen as Horus,
>> grandson of Ra by Osiris, who is reputed in Egyptian myth as having
tried to
>> take the place of Ra.

> Hmmm... News to me. Horus as Ra was known as Ra-Herakhte. It was
not
> a case of Horus usurpting the place of Ra, but rather that the Falcon
> people of Hr syncretising the sun with the flying peregrine falcon.

Herakhte is merely Horus-of-the-two-Horizons, and he was not actually
syncretised so much as closely associated, either by descent as the son of
Ra, or the grandson, son of Osiris and Isis (Hareisis and Harpokrates). As
such, with Ra now getting old, Horus fought Ra's enemies for him. At the
trial of Seth, when he was banished to the wilderness, most of the gods
agreed with Isis's and Horus's claim that Horus be made King of Egypt, but
Ra disagreed claiming Horus was too young (any echo's of Phaeton here?).
There is another myth from Heliopolis, telling how Horus was once blinded in
his right eye (the sun, his left eye was the moon), because he wanted to
equal Ra and see all that Ra had created. Ra said "Behold the Black Pig",
whereupon Horus' right eye was destroyed by a whirlwind of fire. Ra later
restored it.


>>His major myth is also of his battle with the
serpent
>> Apep/Typhon/Set.

> Set was never shown iconographically as a serpent. Rather he was a
> strange being with long square ears and a droppy snout.

Set was associated with various animals, the one you describe, as well as
pigs, donkeys and fishes. In "Egyptian Myth and Legend" by Donald A.
Mackenzie, it says quite categorically "Set was identified with the Apep
serpent of night and storm, and in certain myths the pig takes the place of
the serpent." Set was also identified with Typhon in Hellenistic times.

> Apopi (Greek
> Apophis) was the serpent who swallowed the sun at nights. It was not
> Horus who battled with him but Ptah (of the Memphite theogony).

You've got me there. I can't find any reference to a connection between Ptah
and Apep.

> Typhon was not Egytpian, but rather Greek.

I know. But the source is Egypt.

>>Apep is also the serpent who tries to prevent the
passage
>> of Ra through the underworld at night.

> I thought it was Apep (Apopi) who in fact swallowed the sun at the
> Western horizin at night and disgorged him in the morning at the
> eastern horizon.

I refer you to the Encyclopaedia Mythica http://www.pantheon.org or
http://www.egyptianmyths.com
In both these, and the book I referenced above "Egyptian Myth and Legend",
the basic scenario is that Apep attempts to prevent the passage of the bark
of Ra, but it fought off by Ra's entourage with staves and knives.
Occasionally Apep wins the fight and the image of his swallowing the bark of
Ra refers to the solar eclipse.
This attack is said to occur during the 7th hour division of the night.

> Are we working from the same myths here?

Apparently not.

> And slaying primeval serpents is not just Egyptian. There is Lawtan,
> slain by Baal, Leviathan killed by Yahweh, and Taimat killed by
> Marduk
> (earlier by Enlil). It seems to have marked the transition to
> patriarchy throughout late neolithic cultures of the Middle East and
> the Mediterranean. It is related to the serpent and the seed post I
> did.


I never meant to imply that only the Egyptians had serpent myths.

Cheers
Dennis