Mark wrote
> My understanding is that Avestan and Sanskrit are essentially the
same language, very closely related dialects. I'm not sure how to
compare closeness, but it seems closer than Danish/Swedish; the
differences, such as they are, might be likened to those between
Czech
and Slovakian. In any event, the conclusion is that the immediate
ancestor of both Vedic Sanskrit and Gathic Avestan is
proto-Indo-Iranian.
As I put up in an earlier post, Avestan is a different dialect and
seems more distant from proto-Indo-Iranian than the Gathan dialect.
This is not to say necessarily that the Gathan was earlier, just more
conservative and less prone to change, in the same way that Mongolian
is closer to proto-Altaic, or Arabic is more conservative than Hebrew.
One of the chief differences between the two is the h-s shift. Thus
soma in Sanscrit is haoma in Avestan, Asura in Sanscrit is Ahura in
Avestan (As in Ahura Mazda). This shift did not just go one way.
Zarathushtra is described as a zaotar of the old Aryan religion, in
the Gathas (Yasna 33-6). In Sanscrit the corresponding term was
hotar. Nevertheless there is much in common. The old poetic form,
and the meter of the Gathas is similar to the Vedas. It seems that
he
also made use of many of the similar concepts. Thus the rta (truth)
used by Zarathushtra is the asha of the Sanscrit Vedas.
Mark, I think that this indicates a greater distance than that
between
Danish and Swedesh or Czech and Solvak.
> As for dates, I've seen dates as early as 1500 BCE for the earliest
RV hymns, with the place of composition probably north of Afganistan,
at the back-end of modern China. Yes, some seem to have been composed
on the eastermost steppe, or at least, faithfully reflects
traditional
material dating from the steppe period.
You seem to have different information than I have here Mark. I know
that there is evidence of the Herat and other Afghan Rivers preserved
in the RV, and yet it seems firmly centred in the Indus 7 Rivers
area.
There is evidence, as I mentioned that it knew of the Saraswati
River, which dried out 1,500 BCE, but I don't know of any origin in
Margiana north of Afghanistan.
There is evidence in Margaiana in the Oxus civilisation of qala
(fortresses) at oases, guarding trade routes, surrounded by
Indo-Iranian monadic pastoralists from 2,000 BCE. From religious
finds, evidence of the ritual use of the crushed ephedra plant, a
halucinogen when crushed and mixed with water, has been suggested to
have been the origins of soma-haoma. Presumably it was from this
area
that the Indo-Aryans moved down into India (if the IA Invasion
hypothesis holds). It may not have been an invasion, though, but
rather a movement of herds of cattle, sheep and goats, with their
tribal shepherds.
Hope this helps
John