From: Dennis Poulter
Message: 1981
Date: 2000-04-01
----- Original Message -----
From: Rex H. McTyeire <rexbo@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 30 March, 2000 10:17 PM
Subject: [cybalist] Pelasgians - another (last) word
> John Croft offers a place name list from Perseus:
>
> Palaikastritsa is in Corfu
> Palaiikastro is in Eastern Crete
> Pelikate is on Ithaca
> Phylakopi is in the Cyclades
> Plaka is on the tip of Attica
>
> Your kites are always interesting, John: we now have a
> substantial list of apparently pel/pal derived place and facility
> names, far from limited to the Greek mainland.
>
What you have is a list of words beginning P(V)L (I would reject 'PH' as in
Greek it bears no relationship to 'P'), You describe it as substantial, I
would describe it as circumstantial.
> There is also a Palaikastro, Boeotia..and much more. (Just
> looking at the pel/pal..and ignoring Larissa's in two places in Anatolia,
4
> places in Greece, 2 in Crete, and 1 in Syria.)
>
But who named these Larissai, and more importantly when? I have offered a
possible derivation meaning "Entry to Fertile Land" from the Egyptian. Do
you have another explanation of the name?
> Pelasgian people from Larissa in Anat and Greece = Larisseans
> (used by Strabo as Pelasgian) The Anatolian ones became Lydians. The
folks
> sent to become Etruscans (by Lydians of Tyrra) were Rassenes, then
Rasenna.
> Is "Larisseans" to "Rassenes/Rasenna" a really big linguistic or logic
leap?
>
Yes, it is a big leap. Assuming "Rasenna" is Etruscan, do you know that
"-n-" is a adjectival ending in that language to to derive people from a
place name, as it is in English?
> In reference to peoples:
> Palaumnili (used for {Palaic} language in Hattusas archive)
> Pelasgian
> Pelasgi
> Pelargi
> Pelasgic (Virgil to people of Argos II)
> Pelasgiotae (Strabo: people in north Thessaly to lower Macedon)
> Palusta
> Pelasti
> Pelasgoi - (Homer: the Pelasti; Iliad 16,233)
> Peligni (in pre-Roman Tuscany..natives not Etruscan)
> Pelignian (Livy for same in Tuscany)
> Pelagians (ITALY)
> Pelorians (in SICILY)
> Peleset
> Peleste (Mashriqian for invaders into the Levant)
> Palestinian
> Philistim/Philistine
>
> Specific individual name:
> Pelasgus (of Mysia)
> Pelops (from Anatolia to Pelasgia)
> Peleus (father of Achilles)
> Pylos (son of Cleson)
> Pelias (dispatched Jason and the Argo)
> Poliorcetes (founded Demetrias)
> Polypoetes (Ruler of portion of Thessaly)
>
> Places:
> Palaechthon
> Palaiscepsis: (City in the Troad, pre-Trojan war)
> Palaepolis (Samothracian city)
> Paleopolis (Greek colony into Italy)
> Poliochni (Lemnos city/ EBA 3000 BCE)
> Pelasgia (1-Argolis @ EBA> 2- Achaea > 3- Peloponnese)
> Pelasgiotis (Thessaly)
> Pelasgis (alternate name for Larisa, Thessaly)
> Placia (Pelasgian city on the Hellespont, Anatolia)
> Pylos I (on promontory of Coryphasium)
> Pylos II (in Elis)
> Pylus (on the road to Lacedaemon from the east coast)
> Pylus (Messenia)
> Pylae (Coastal city near Thermopylae)
> Phalara (20 stadia north of Pylae)
> Pherae
> Pelasgian plains (Strabo: 160 strada between Pherae and Pelion)
> Pelion (mountain in Thessaly)
> Phlastia (from John: near Scyron; Corinth)
> Pylaïc (Thessalian {Maliac} Gulf from Dolopia to Pindus)
> Pella (Jordan EBA) (and Greece)
> Palestine
> Philistia
> Pala (Anatolia, south of Black Sea)
> Peloponnese (renaming Pelasgia for "Pelops" as Peloponnesus )
> Pelorias (corner of Sicily)
> Palatine Hill (ROME)
> Palmyra (Italy)
> Palmyrena (Italy)
>
> Arch sites in Greece/Crete/Italy/Sicily/Jordan/(cough) Spain:
> PALAIA PHEVA, see under TITHOREA
> PALAIOCHORA, see KARYSTOS
> PALAIOKASTRO, see APTERA, BOUPHAGION, PYLOS
> PALAIOKHORA ("Kalamyde") Selinos, Crete.
> PALAIO-LARISA, see KRANNON
> PALAIOPHARSALOS Thessaly, Greece.
> PALAIOPOLIS, see ANDROS
> PALAIPAPHOS, see PAPHOS
> PALATIA (Phokis, Greece), see ANTIKYRA
> PALATITSA, see VERGHINA
> PALEA GORITSA, see LIMES, GREEK EPEIROS
> PALENCIA, see PALENTIA, Palencia, Spain.
> PALEOKOULA, see LIMES, GREEK EPEIROS
> PALEO SEBASTE, see EIBEOS
> PALERMO, see PANORMOS
> PALESTRINA, see PRAENESTE
> PALIKÉ (Mineo) Catania, Sicily.
> PALIOCHORI, see LIMES, ATTICA
> PALIOKHORI BOTSARI, see LIMES, GREEK EPEIROS
> PALIOPREVESA, see NIKOPOLIS
> PALIOROFORON ("Elatria") S Epeiros, Greece.
> PALLANO, see PALLANUM
> PALLANTION Arkadia, Greece.
> PALLANUM (Pallano) Abruzzo, Italy.
> PELINNA (Palaiogardiki) Thessaly, Greece.
> PELLA Macedonia, Greece. (Images: 58)
> PELLA (Khirbet Fahil) Jordan.
> PELLENE Achaia, Greece.
> PELTUINUM Abruzzi, Italy.
>
> General use:
> Palaic (language of the people of Pala)
> Pelagos (coastal)
> Pel (of the sea)
> Paleo (old or first)
>
> Birds:
> peliai/pelioi (old Pelasgian men/women + pigeons)
> pelican (sea bird)
> Peleiades (3 old priestesses of Dodona + storks)
> Pelargi (another name for Pelasgi in Strabo, also "storks")
>
> Facilities/Structures/functions:
> palace
> Pelasgic wall (fortification, N.W. slope of Acropolis).
> Pelargikon (Attic name for the above wall)
> Palinthus (tomb of Danaus in center of Argive market)
> Pylaic (Festal Assembly)(Strabo: festival w/ games Thessaly)
> Palaimon (temple, Isthmus of Corinth)
> Pelasgicon
> Pelicáta (Ithaca, Palace of Odysseus)
> Palaestra (gym for youth, weapons; Anatolia/Crete/Greece)
>
This list is the equivalent of throwing dust in your opponent's eye. There
are obvious Pelasgian references scattered amongst these words. Many contain
the element "palai/e" meaning "old". This is the normal Greek word for
"old". Does it derive from Pelasgos or does Pelasgos derive from it? I
favour the second.
For this list to have any meaning, you would have to investigate each one to
ascertain its age, first attested use and any earlier variant forms. How do
you account for the variant vowels (or lack of vowel) between the 'p' and
'l'? What does the rest of the word signify, if it is genuinely
'pVl'+something? Is it a purely Greek word, or in what language is it
attested? As far as I can see, with all due respect, this list is
meaningless.
A couple of suggestions for your investigation :
Egyptian p3 (earlier /pr/,/pl/ later /pa/,/pe/) - definite article
Egyptian pr (/pr/,/pl/) - house, abode, estate, shrine
e.g. Pelops from /p3 r-p't/ "the prince"
Peleus , "p" from "kW" /kWele/, cf Telemachos
I look forward to your derivations and explanations of these words.
Cheers
Dennis
> La Revedere;
> Rex H. McTyeire
> Bucharest, Romania
> <rexbo@...>
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