From: Alexander Stolbov
Message: 1158
Date: 2000-01-26
----- Original Message -----
From: John Croft <jdcroft@...>
To: <cybalist@eGroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 1:01 PM
Subject: [cybalist] Re: Catchup voting results
> > [Alexander]:
>> First farmers appeared at the territory north of the Sahara
> > in the 6th mill.BC.
> > What a superfamily did they belong to? We can answer confidently - to
> > the
> > Nostratic one (or theoretically to the second hypotetical Near East
> > superfamily,
> > however I don't think so) because they had barley and wheat + sheep
> and
> > goats,
> > not millet + cattle.
>
> [John]:
> Specifically probably to the Afro-Asiatic branch. Some have suggested
> that this family started in Africa (Ethiopian region) subsequently
> spreading to the Middle East. Certainly if we base the original site
> of language where the oldest features are found and where linguistic
> diversity is greatest - it should be Ethiopia.
Alexander:
Maximal linguistic diversity is a good argument.
Please give more details about "the oldest features" (in Cushitic, I believe?).
But if we take the Ethiopian hypothesis some questions arise:
Who had brought goats, sheep, barley and wheat in Africa?
How and when Semitic people appeared in Arabia?
Why early Semits did not have tef and finger millet which were domesticated in
Ethiopia very early (c. 5000 BC)?
Semits, Egyptians and Lybians belong to Europeoid racial type; Cushitic and
Chadic people belong to 2 DIFFERENT ancient kinds of mixed Europeoid/Negroid
racial type. How to explain this?
Are there any evidences of spreading people WESTWARD from Middle or Upper Nile
(i.e. in the region to the south from Sahara) in the Neolithic period? (I mean
the origin of Chadic people)
BTW Do you consider Afro-Asiatic family as a Nostratic one?
Even if not, is it possible to deny very early contacts of Proto-Afro-Asiatic
people (not only Proto-Semitic or Proto-Egyptian!) with proto-groups which
produced other Nostratic families? Where? In Ethiopia?
> >
> > [Alexander]:
>> Egyptians belong to the Nostratic superfamily (Afroasiatic
> > family), but they
> > were far not the very first group there.
> >
> > [Gerry]:
>> So what you're saying is that the Egyptians weren't the first
> > people to live in Egypt? Then which group are you selecting to have
> > superceded the Egyptians? BTW, don't let the present day Egyptians
> know
> > what you're saying. With their strong sense of nationalism, they'll
> > certainly disagree (and right they should).
>
>[John]:
> There is much discussion over this. Farming it has been suggested
> (Apart from the abortive Hulwan industry around Fayyum) with the Tasian
> and Badariran cultures seem to have shown aun unbroken succession down
> to the Nilotic Sudanese (Dinka and others) of today.
Alexander:
I can't agree with this. Look, "the Tasians were settled farmers who cultivated
emmer wheat and barley and raised herds of sheep and goats" (Enc.Brit.). But
Dinka and other Nilotic folks herd first of all African cattle and cultivate
mainly millet of African origin.
Thus Nilotic people (like Niger-Kodofan as well) represent the Saharan Neolithic
complex (cattle+millet) in contrary to the Near East initial Neolithic complex
(goats/sheep+wheat/barley).
> Amratian culture
> shows clear Asiatic afinity and it has been suggested that it is linked
> with the Libu (Libyans). Gerzian (Naqada III) has been linked with a
> "Dynastic Race" which had close Mesopotamian affinities, and has been
> suggested to have been the originator of the "Semetic" features in what
> was otherwise a "Hamitic" language. Now that both are part of
> Afro-Asiatic changes things somewhat and makes the newer features less
> obtrusive.
Thank you for the interesting imformation. Could you give some more details?
John, you use the term "Semetic". Do you distinguish this from "Semitic"? If so
what is the difference?
Best regards,
Alexander Stolbov
http://siem.newmail.ru