Re: Carniola et al.

At 09:51 2000-01-22 -0800, you wrote:

> Tommy Tyrberg writes:
>>"Vend" is an old Germanic term for Slavs. The Swedish Kings called
>>themselselve "svears, göters och venders konung", however despite the
>>fact that parts of Pomerania (part of the old Vendish area) was Swedish
>>1648-1814 the use of the title was due to rivalry with Denmark. Sweden
>>and Denmark/Norway was in Union in the fifteenth century and the Danish
>>Kings kept calling themselves Kings of Sweden long after this, so to
>>retaliate Swedish kings took over part of the Danish Kings traditional
>>title as King of the Vends! By the way this title goes backto the 12-13th
>>century when the Danes conquered parts of the North German Coast,
>>including Rügen. The Slavs had colonized this area back in the 6th-7th
>>centuries when it was probably partially depopulated since the previous
>>East Germanic inhabitants (Goths, Vandals etc) had removed themselves. A
>>few Vends apparently even crossed the Baltic and settled on the Danish
>>island of Lolland to judge from a group of place-names there (e. g.
>>Tillitse). As for Ostrobothnia, this is "Österbotten" in the original
>>Swedish, it means simply "East Bottom", it is the country east of
>>Bottenviken (the Bay of Bothnia, literally "Bottom Bay"). Opposite is
>>"Västerbotten" (West Bottom). The name Norrbotten ("North Bottom") for
>>the area north of Bottenviken is a much younger name formed by analogy.
>
>I've learned something! I had never associated Wends with Slavs. I had
>always sort of assumed it meant 'Vandal'. I'm wrong. Learning to get your
>ethnonyms straight is useful. Thank you. As for the etymology of 'Bothnia',
>I have wondered about this one. If the Gulf of Mexico is named after
>Mexico, and the Persian Gulf is named after Persia, what was the Bothnia
>the Gulf of Bothnia named after? The answer, it seems, is there really
>isn't a Bothnia. The Gulf is named after itself: The Gulf of Bottom [Bay].
>This is not as bad a bilingual redundancy as "the La Brea Tar Pits"
>(literally, 'the the tar tar pits') of Los Angeles. It might even logical,
>though I have trouble thinking that a bay can also be a gulf. Anyway: such
>things happen when toponyms, hydronyms and the such cross languages. As for
>Ostrobothnia, this is the name of a Finnish province (several actually;
>there is a South Ostrobothnia). The center is the port city of Vaasa (any
>relation to Gustav Vasa?). Mark.
>
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The name is actually rather logical. In Swedish the Baltic Sea is divided
into three parts "Östersjön" (The East Sea) is the part south of Södra
Kvarken (the Narrows at Åland), Bottenhavet (The Bottom Sea) is the part
between Södra and Norra Kvarken (the Narrows at Vaasa) and the part north
of this is Bottenviken (Bottom Bay). The "Bottom" in both cases refers to
the fact that they are "at the bottom of the Baltic", i e the part farthest
in from the ocean. The word is used fairly often in this sense in nordic
place name, e. g. Norwegian Varangerbotn at the end of the Varanger fiord.

Österbotten is indeed a finnish province, however You must remember that
Sweden and Finland was unified up to 1809 and the Ostrobothnia has always
had a predominantly Swedish speaking population (as has Åland and parts of
Åboland). Similarily the Torne valley in northeastern Sweden has a
finnish-speakung population. When Finland was conquered by Russia in 1809
the new border was not drawn to follow the language boundary. Vaasa is the
finnish form of the name Vasa which was the family name of Gustaf Vasa,
founder of the Vasa dynasty that ruled Sweden 1520-1645. Nearly all
placenames in Ostrobothnia are Swedish.

Tommy