Odp: Lesbianism and IE gender distinction.

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 1024
Date: 2000-01-20

 
----- Original Message -----
From: Glen Gordon
To: cybalist@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 9:57 PM
Subject: [cybalist] Lesbianism and IE gender distinction.

>I know from my understanding of Tok Pisin in the highlands of Papua >New 
>Guinea, that they make no pronoun distinction between male and >female.

That isn't unusual. In fact, closer to home, Altaic and Uralic languages 
hold the same lack of distinction in the 3rd person singular and plural, as 
do SinoTibetan languages like Mandarin and Cantonese. I view the 
circumstances, in these languages at least, to be ancient. Uralic and Altaic 
stem from Nostratic and that language  probably only made a distinction of 
animate vs. inanimate through syntax. Dene-Caucasian can be seen to have had 
a complex grammar that involved a large set of "word classes" (which are in 
effect gender classes) but again, no formal classes for "masculine" or 
"feminine", more along the lines of animate/inanimate, human/non-human, etc.

I believe, as far as I remember, that even Tagalog has "sila" which is used 
for either gender. Mayan too, and EskimoAleut, and Swahili, and Zulu, and 
Basque, and ...

>PIE, I believe did, with the result that in a number of modern
>languages all nouns have become genderised.

Not exactly. The original gender distinction was animate/inanimate as is 
seen in Anatolian. It only later was replaced with a 
masculine/feminine/neuter distinction once Anatolian was on its own. The 
masculine gender is largely the animate gender. The feminine gender is 
largely from certain kinds of inanimate nouns often ending with vowel final 
suffixes (from loss of laryngeal). This can be seen by the famous example in 
Latin of "agricola" for "farmer" which oddly is a _feminine_ noun - it was 
not originally.



Correction, Glen. Agricola is masculine, though it looks feminine. Same for poeta, scriba, etc. The Slavic languages still have many such nouns, e.g. Polish zdrajca 'traitor' or kÅ‚amca 'liar' with a "feminine" ending.
 
Conversely, Latin nurus 'daughter-in-law' is grammatically feminine despite its -us (as is Greek nuos, both < *snusos); another well-known case is Greek parthenos (f.) 'girl, virgin'. Also Latin names of trees and shrubs are generally feminine even if they look masculine: malus 'apple-tree', fraxinus 'ash', , fagus 'beech', rubus 'bramble', etc. Thus also in Greek: apios 'pear-tree', phe:gos 'species of oak' were feminine.
 
Some Latin (as well as Greek, Sanskrit, Hittite ...) nouns could have either natural gender irrespective of their form: Latin bos 'cow (f.)/ox (m.)'. Greek ho anthro:pos meant 'he-human (= man)', while he: anthro:pos meant 'she-human (= woman)' (same for horses, cattle, sheep, dogs, hares, foxes etc.).
 
Piotr
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