Re: Re; sensitive period in language acquisition

From: Gerry Reinhart-Waller
Message: 930
Date: 2000-01-15

Marc Verhaegen wrote:
>
> >Marc writes: IMO we have what you could call templates for language in
> general, but not for a specific language. IOW Russians have the same
> templates as Bushmen, though perhaps there are small differences. If a
> second language is more difficult, it's because it's learnt at a later age I
> think.
>
> >Gerry here: The reason I used 1 yr. as the age at which an infant could
> begin to learn a second language was because I thought that was presented as
> the beginning of "language learning" by some folks on the list. How about 6
> months? Would the native infant still have the advantage? These edges
> certainly become fuzzy, don't they?
>
> >I think that as we us the term "instincts" to describe the aggregate of
> behavioral unconditioned reflexes we may us term "culture" to describe the
> aggregate of behavioral conditioned reflexes in human societies. Language is
> an element of it. Alexander
>
> >Marc: I generally agree with you. We have a lot of instincts, not less than
> other mammals. What we tend to learn is the result of what we're confronted
> with (our family, school, society...) & of what our brain can learn. IOW we
> can't learn anything. There are "empty places" in our brain that can be
> filled in, but not everything can placed there. There are grades of
> learning. Imprinting is very limited in what can be filled in, eg, in young
> animals their mother's face or voice, the nestplace, their father's &
> neighbours' song (in birds), the smell of their siblings, etc., or later in
> life the features of the partner (in monogamous species) or of the children.
> In humans the association areas in the neocortex are enormously expanded, so
> that humans can learn a lot more than most if not all nonhuman animals.
>
> >Gerry here: Marc, I agree with you in general and disagree with you about
> specifics. That all of us possess a "template" for language in general I
> thought was an accepted fact. I would go beyond that point and claim that
> the template for the Russian language is a bit more complex than that for
> Swahili.
>
> I think all humans have +- the same basic equipment where the specific
> language can be filled in --Swahili or Russian or Khoisan or whatever
> language.
>
> >I like Alexander's separation of instinct (unconditioned reflexes) and
> culture (behavioral instincts). I'm curious about what you mean by "empty
> areas in the brain". Are these areas present in all brains or just a few?
> Can these areas be filled or do most of them remain empty? Gerry
>
> All brains (animal & human) that can learn have these places to be filled
> in. Brains that can learn are designed to learn specific things, eg, the
> smell of the river where you were born if you were a salmon. This place can
> not remain empty, of course. In the same way (but a lot more complicated)
> humans have in their brains places where specific phonemes must be filled
> in, probably at a very early age, perhaps less than 1 years old (cf.
> babbling period?), etc.
>
> Marc
>
Gerry here: Below I have included a post we received today on
Cybalist. I guess on the question of "template", my position is similar
to that of Chomsky and yours is akin to Piaget. Have you had a chance
to investigate Piaget on the web? The site is quite impressive and very
informative.

Here's the post from Mihai Popescu:
Anyway, I should like to remind you an interesting polemics between Noam
Chomsky
and Jean Piaget on this specific issue -- if no one mentioned it
already. In the
seventies -- if I remember well -- Chomsky said that the (deep)
structure of
language is genetically inscribed into the human brain, while Piaget
spoke only
about a progressive acquisition process during childhood. At that time I
was
inclined to consider Chomsky's position as more interesting.

Gerry here: When I consider both Chomsky and Piaget I am reminded of
paradigm and paradigm shifts. It seems that Piaget and the other
"reductionists" line up on one side and those with the "antithesis" line
up on the other. Say Marc, do you think the time in near when synthesis
needs to be discussed?
Gerry
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--

Gerald Reinhart
Independent Scholar
(650) 321-7378
waluk@...
http://www.alekseevmanuscript.com