Re: Proto-Slavic "bear"

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Kalutskiy <sunnet@...>
To: <cybalist@eGroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 7:46 PM
Subject: [cybalist] Re: Odp: Proto-Slavic "bear"


> "piotr gasiorowski" <gpiot-@...> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=917
> > PIE *xrtkos > *rtk'os > *irtsu > *jIrsU (I, U = yers, i.e.
> reduced vowels). But the sequence *rtk is so uncommon that it's
> difficult to say what its "regular" development should be (moreover, it
> was prone to metathesis). The initial syllabic *r is another problem.
> An alternative development would have given *urtsu > *wUrsU. I'd
> predict hypothetical Polish *jars/wars, Russian *jors/vors, etc.
> Suspiciously similar to Latin ursus, in fact.
> >
> > Piotr
>
> Hi Piotr,
>
> So you think that the [t] for sure would be dropped? The reconstruction
> for Proto-Celtic is sth. like *artos, is it not? If I wanted to
> hypothesize something like PIE *xrtkos > *r@...'os > PS *rUtsU, or
> maybe *r@... > *rUtU
> for P-S, would I be completely off the mark?
>
> The thing is, a few years ago I met some old people in the Urals in
> Russia who, while foraging for berries and mushrooms in the forest,
> used the word "rUtik" as an affectionate nickname for their grandchild,
> . When asked what they meant by this word they said: "Look at him, how
> he finds all those mushrooms where we've already looked, he's like a
> bear cub". But when asked if "rUtik" meant a bear cub they only
> shrugged.
>
> So if -ik is a diminutive-affectionate suffix, see where I'm going? Of
> course this needs to be verified by polling more locals to see if they
> know or use such a word, but I just wanted to see if it's at all worth
> pursuing.
>
> Gene
>

Gene and Piotr,

Please describe more precisely how "U" must sound and I'll try to help you.

If this sound corresponds to typical for Russian very hard "i" which
traditionally is transliterated by the letter "y" like in words "byk" (bull) or
Chernomyrdin, the origin in all probability is the following:
rytik - a self-invented original word with a transparent etymology derived from
the verb "ryt' " (to dig, to root up). It means "that who digs (for mushrooms)".

If the supposition about "U" is wrong other explanations should be found.

Alexander