From: Mihai Popescu
Message: 914
Date: 2000-01-14
> >>>> Marc said: Some believe the fetus in utero already becomes accustomed
> to its mother's sounds. Since about 3 months of age there are "dialogs"
> between mother & child. But the first "words" appear at ca.1 year. This may
> be called language already. What do you mean by template? Of course we have
> brains that easily learn language (or better: speech -- chimps can perhaps
> learn some sort of ASL but not to speak).
>
> >>> By template I mean a predesign or a map that assists the infant in
> learning his/her native tongue. I don't know how to scientifically prove
> this notion, but I do know that a native born speaker learns his native
> language with facility while a child age 1 or so would experience some
> difficulty in learning the same language as a second language. My question
> is why does this occur. Gerry
>
> IMO we have what you could call templates for language in general, but not
> for a specific language. IOW Russians have the same templates as Bushmen,
> though perhaps there are small differences. If a second language is more
> difficult, it's because it's learnt at a later age I think.
>
> >> Hi Gerry: It's been 25 years since I got a BA degree in Pysch, or even
> done any reading in the field, but I believe the basics haven't changed that
> much in the physiology of learning theorey. One of the distinctions between
> humans and other animals is the almost total lack of behavorial templates in
> humans. Behaviorial templates in animals are called instincts, and beyond a
> fear of heights, and quick sounds we are without them. The human
> brain is very much like a new computer, just waiting to be programmed. But
> the big difference between humans and computers is that are memories don't
> get erased. What a memory is, is not fully understood. But we are pretty
> certain that it involves the development of neural junctions called
> synapses. This development involves the transmission of neural conductors
> that actually change the nature of the synapse - in a very real sense the
> brain, by thinking, experiencing etc -is altered. The more a neural pathway
> is used (the same synapses is used) the more conducive that pathway becomes
> (the faster it will transmit). In a sense we literally become predisposed to
> thinking in certain ways. (There were a few other theories floating around
> about field theories and gestalt netways some 25 years ago - but none of
> them suggested anything like a inbuilt-template.) When we just start out,
> almost nothing is programmed - beyond certain capabilities to recognise
> certain visual stimuli (movement, edges, possibly circles etc) that have to
> do with how receptors and inhibitor neurons interact with the synapses.
> There are no inherent neural templates related to learning specific
> languages. An infant learns fast because there is nothing in the way. Us
> seniors can have a harder time at learning such things as language - because
> our behavior as become so ingrained and most of us don't go to the trouble
> to challenge it (burn in new neural pathways). Think about it. You have
> been here in the USA for a long time. Ever hear of anyone saying that babies
> born of English descended ancestry have a much easier time of learning
> English than someone who is born of Greek, or French, etc. (Children born
> to recent immigrants can have somewhat greater difficulty in learning
> English, but that is invariably tied into use of a non-English language at
> home and that is usually offset by the childs mastery of another language).
> Infants/children simply learn easier, because of the developmental stage
> they are in. I have simplified Learning theory a little bit here -
> left out gobs of information about how the brain processes change with age
> etc and the field is actually quite interesting, it was just starting to
> merge with AI when I stopped trying to keep up. You may find more
> information and better information about your question if you look there.
> Best Regards Brent
>
> > Hi Brent, I agree in general with all you have said. The only thing I'd
> like to comment is the statement that people have no instincts but "a fear
> of heights, and quick sounds". In my opinion we have inherited almost all
> the instincts which mammals have. How do men behave in the presence of a
> pretty girl (no matter what are their age, marriage status and probability
> to establish romantic relations)? What does a man feel when suddenly know
> that this child is his (even if absolutely no additional care is needed)? Is
> there a big difference between hierarchy in a group of baboons and of
> prisoners (I mean Russian jails)? The number of examples can be multiplied.
> However you are absolutely right saying that the role of such "inborn
> templates" in human is much less than in animals. They are usually
> suppressed by mighty complex of conditioned reflexes and consciousness. I
> think that as we us the term "instincts" to describe the aggregate of
> behavioral unconditioned reflexes we may us term "culture" to describe the
> aggregate of behavioral conditioned reflexes in human societies. Language is
> an element of it. Alexander
>
> I generally agree with you. We have a lot of instincts, not less than other
> mammals. What we tend to learn is the result of what we're confronted with
> (our family, school, society...) & of what our brain can learn. IOW we can't
> learn anything. There are "empty places" in our brain that can be filled in,
> but not everything can placed there.
> There are grades of learning. Imprinting is very limited in what can be
> filled in, eg, in young animals their mother's face or voice, the nestplace,
> their father's & neighbours' song (in birds), the smell of their siblings,
> etc., or later in life the features of the partner (in monogamous species)
> or of the children. In humans the association areas in the neocortex are
> enormously expanded, so that humans can learn a lot more than most if not
> all nonhuman animals.
>
> Marc
>
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