Re: Odp: Satem-Centum (Kentum) split

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 4:26 PM

Subject: [cybalist] Re: Satem-Centum (Kentum) split

Piotr wrote in reply to my message:
Brent writes:
I am trying to sort out language relationships for myself.  Somewhere
recently I read that 2 or 3 of the so-called Satem languages don't
involve just a single constant-pair change, (g' to s) but involve two
constant-pair changes, and so are not quite the same thing as the
classic definition.  I was fairly certain this was said at Cyril's
site, or in Mallory's book.  But I can't seem to find it.  In sorting
out relationships, I had reason to wonder about the strength of the
classic classification of languages (satem, centum) and needed to
re-read this section.  Does anyone know the reference, or know
specifically what was said (which languages involve two constants
switches, which involve one and what the additional constant pair is?).

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I could help you if you told me clearly what you mean by a
"constant-pair change".
 
Perhaps you're looking for languages which preserve a three-way
contrast among the reflexes of *k, *k' and *kw?
 
Piotr
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My response:

Hi Piotr:

I wish I could be precise, but the vagueness of the recollection, was
why I was trying to find it again. I'll give you as many clues as I can.

First I don't think it was the 3-way contrast you were refering to.  I
seem to
recall that an f,g or p was involved (but that is were the faulty
memorey comes in). And second, I believe any languages that retained
the *k would be classified as Kentum and this reference was definately
to those languages that had been classically called Satem (Armenian,
Indic, Iranian, Slavic, and Baltic) so it involves these specific
language groups.

I use constant here, to distinguish it from vowels. That is, the sound
change involved a shift in constants, not vowels, in all cases.

I have the recall that some of the Satem languages only involve the 
*k - s shift (the one-pair constant I was refering to) and that at
least two other Satem languages are involved in a shifting of two-pairs
of constants.  I can think of two types of illustrative examples *k and
another constant to s,  or possibly *k - s shift is also accompanied by
another constant-pair shift ((such as f - g??).. it was something along
this line.

Sorry I can't be more precise. I continue searching for the reference,
but I have covered a lot of data lately and I can't seem to find it.  I
really appreciate your offer to help.

Brent


I see. You mean CONSONANT PAIRS. OK, I'll try to help you.

Piotr