Re: voting results

Interesting, can I put in a peanut? I'm not that expert either.

Leroi Courhan, studied about 100 French caves and found features in common,
one main one was the male signs, barbs, spears, etc were found near or on
animal paintings at the beginning, female signs, chevrons, container like at
the end and child or mixed signs in the middle. Would not this argue for a
more overall structure or organisation one might perhaps not quite grace
with the word state, but something in group communication. I suppose you
are aware, forgot the name, but one cave which showed people dressed and
with ornaments and the rest. This male, female child business is found
embedded in language, as well as in social role and task allottment, yet it
is found here. Put 1 and 1 together, seems there's a structured language
around, or some sort of classification or ordering. The change from mere
bands into tribes into states would be gradual would it? I can only disagree
with language growing full blown in one generation. The speech thing has
now been put back to 86,000 BC. If phylogney repeats ontogeny then the one
word, 2 & 3 word sentence argues for something. Mama begins as a global
notion of everything to do with mama and only gradually refines in detail.
MY son, when into 3 word sentence talked like a machne gun and I lost count
of the words I never heard from him before. It seemed to me he was
re-organising in the head and going through the paces. He was not all that
interested in talking with or at me. I used to be told that was just
babbling, I doubt it.

There seems to be some sort of transitional phase as between the 100th
monkey effect, show see and copy, never mind the rest, where it is called
parallel talk where words and action go together. This would then be
displayed in those caves as we get just that, except we get tags that would
not otherwise mean much. Since the make up of the species does not vary
that much we might assume their minds worked in much the same ways as ours,
but at what we would now call a child level, but suited to adult needs. One
of our main evolutionary hurdles has been communication.

Next, one of my puzzles is stone age bone carving. One finds very early
decorated with sprigs of plants. If one ignores the random scribbling
interpretation and in view of the above that something of some communicable
or even teachable order is entailed one would suspect some kind of crude
farming. Vainemoinen sits and ponders, sits and thinks, figures out
lightning burns a dell and if more fertile as slash and burn farming. I know
the kalevala is late in print, but is supposedly long in oral. Would that
not imply one needs to subclassify farming until for Anatolia 7,000 BC odd
it shaped an entire society. So one would suspect a phase of "exploration"
in the advantages of cultivation? Chaos Theory implies that our of small
beginnings big things can grow. Which gives us a midposition between mere
random and fully planned, in that insight from experience does contribute? I
may well be talking the obvious here, but I've seen no signs of this in any
books. The film on chimp seeing mirror is most instructive. H sap means he
who knows but not always either what or how he knows. I never quite bought
into that word 'primitive', very relative.

Ditto for so called geometric or abstract signs, found all over the place
and well before one might call it neolithic, not too sure. I visited
Normandy and dolmen occur in grouped clutches, not just only here and there.
On such sparse evidence, yes, but it argues for group cohesion, not
necessarily of the state with a ruler kind. I live in NZ, have visited
Maori sites, a stone age culture and there is a chief. But he can act only
once and after communal decisions are made. Thus, more of a democracy. I'd
like to see your 11 points, it is helpful in making classifications.

adrian


Subject: [cybalist] Re: voting results