Odp: Centaurs redux.

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----- Original Message -----

From: Mark Odegard

To: cybalist@eGroups.com

Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 10:02 PM

Subject: [cybalist] Centaurs redux.

I'm reading Dumezil's Mitra-Varuna: ...

We are therefore justified in regarding the identity of the three names, Gandharva, Februo, Kentauro- -- give or take a few articulatory nuances -- as a probability. From the phonetic point of view alone, it is true they can be explained in several divergent ways, but a convergent explaination is also possible. Gandharva by Indo-European *Guhondh-erwo [superscript u], Februo by IE *Guhedh-rwo [again, superscript u] (for the ending cf. -ruus from *-rwo in patruus), Kentauro- by IE Kent-rwo [filled underdot under the r]. The differences between the first two can be explained by quite normal shifts (depending on vocalic stages, presence and absence of "nasal infix"). As for the third, its unvoiced occlusives (k-t-), contrasting with the voiced aspirate occlusives (guh-dh [superscript u]) of the other two, insert it into a set of doublets collated by Vendryes (Memoires de la Societe de Linguistique, XVIII, 1913, p. 310; Revue Celtique, XL, 1932, p. 436), and this consonantal shift, appearing precisely in roots that indicate a swift or expressive movement of hand or foot ("seize", "run", "recoil"), as well as in names of animals ("he-goat") and parts of the body ("head"), would be appropriate on more than one count in the names of beast-men, Indo-European maskers, swift runners and great ravishers.

I don't know what he's talking about. I think he is talking in part about the 'secret society' of men responsible for initiating boys into manhood (and their education in warlike pursuits) and those aspects of masculinity expressed among men in modern days in the locker room and the barracks -- the stuff we men prefer to keep away from the women, or at least, unmentioned to them as a kind of open secret; it's the vessel of the double standard.
Anyway. Is it possible to relate these three words to a common PIE ancestor -- and what does it mean? Male sodality? Lodge-brothers?
Or is this to be rejected out of hand? Robert Graves seems to have been infected by this idea when he writes of centaurs.
Mark.
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I know that etymology. Speaking as a linguist, I dismiss it out of hand. Dumezil had a cavalier approach to 'articulatory nuances'. This reminds me of Voltaire's (?) saying that in the science of etymology consonants count for little and vowels for even less. 'Details' like PIE vowel grades or 'presence or absence of "nasal infix"' were not arbitrary ornaments but had quite precise morphological functions. If you manipulate them at will you can prove anything -- that is, in effect, nothing. Dumezil's semantic derivation (as far as any of it is comprehensible) also strains credulity -- mine at least. The Gandharvas were semi-divine heavenly musicians and singers, lovers of the Apsaras. Does that look like a description of the Centaurs? I much prefer your cowpoke hypothesis.

Talking of which ... To my amazement, I found Gk. kentauros glossed 'bull-goader' in Longman's online English dictionary (it was given as the etymon of E centaur). Good old Longman! But no source was cited so I don't know who has thought of that etymology and how it was justified. I'll have some detective work to do before I start writing a paper on centaurs.

Piotr