--- In qalam@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Ishida" <ishida@...> wrote:
> Suzanne,
>
> I was trying to understand how the alternative Tamil input method
you had in
> mind would work. Is it just a question of inputting components of a
> syllable in visual order, or were you thinking of a kind of
> one-syllable-one-key approach, or something different again?
>
> Cheers,
> RI
No, we have tried the visual order input and, while it is much
simpler to input, I would not on my own suggest it as a model.
I would like to see something closer to Korean but I now need to do
more research and conceptualize exactly what I mean by that. I will
also try to downolad some programs that are being advertised in India
and have come out in the last couple of months. Maybe some of them
would be suitable to be encorporated into Windows or OS X as an IME.

I will probably have to wait until next fall for this because of
other projects. I have to say that Pinyin is very easy if the
children know Pinyin.

I will be spending some time in Hong Kong this summer, finding out
more about how Hong Kong children learn keyboarding and what skill
level is required. I am familiar with these other Chinese programs
that you mention but have not yet seen children use them.
>
> PS: Pinyin input is not so helpful for the kids who don't speak
putonghua
> (Mandarin Chinese).

I have heard that Hong Kong Education policy is moving in the
direction of Pinyin or Hong Kong Romanization. However, Singapore has
a very proactive IT education policy so they may also be producing
research.

Thank you for responding. I have much to reflect on. This has
spurred me on to frame further questions.
>
> ============
> Richard Ishida
> W3C
>
> contact info:
> http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/
>
> W3C Internationalization:
> http://www.w3.org/International/
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: suzmccarth [mailto:suzmccarth@...]
> > Sent: 03 June 2004 18:49
> > To: qalam@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Unicode Tibetan (Was: syllable level encoding in
unicode)
> >
> > --- In qalam@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Ishida" <ishida@...>
wrote:
> > > > suzmccarth wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I think the important factor was the way the users thought
of
> > the
> > > > > characters -- as syllabograms.
> > > >
> > > > Well, my Tamil student brought his pen and paper matrix of
> > > > syllabagrams to school with him clutched in his hot
> > little hand and
> > > > it certainly can be found on the internet. This is one
> > that I have
> > > > copied onto my site. It wasn't hard to find.
> > >
> > >
> > > > suzmccarth also wrote:
> > >
> > > > John. I appreciate your detailed answers but wish to
> > delve deeper if
> > > > I may. Tamil also has an array, a matrix of syllables, a
> > syllabary,
> > > > so they call it. Tamil also has fewer phonemes than other
Indic
> > > > languages, both Indic and Dravidian. It has fewer syllables
than
> > > > Korean. I realize that the large number of Indic scripts is
> > > > probably the biggest argument against precomposed units.
> > > >
> > > > The old typewriter input method, which we also used, had
visual
> > > > sequence input and while useless on the internet and no good
for
> > > > ligatures, shaping and rendering has a certain logic to it -
it
> > > > imitated handwriting.
> > >
> > > Hello suzmcarth,
> > >
> > > We have an *encoding* for Tamil in Unicode, largely influenced,
> > rightly or
> > > wrongly, by previous approaches to encoding Northern Indian
> > scripts. I
> > > don't think we don't want a proliferation of new encodings
taking
> > us back to
> > > the old problems of lack of interoperability.
> > >
> > > A key point in my mind is that what you are concerned about is
more
> > related
> > > to how the users (such as the children you have come across)
> > *input* Tamil.
> > > That is quite a separate question from the encoding model used.
> > >
> > > In CJK you can use input methods that are sound oriented (eg
> > pinyin), shape
> > > oriented (eg. Changjie), derived from roman transcription
(romaji)
> > or native
> > > alphabetic transcription (eg. Bopomofo) or native syllabic (eg.
> > hiragana)
> > > but they all produce the same codes. Latin keyboards come in
> > various
> > > different layouts, but are capable of producing the same codes.
So
> > there is
> > > nothing, technically, that prevents the development of a
keyboard
> > or even
> > > input method that provides an approach based on alternative
models.
> > >
> > > I must say, though, that I'm not clear how a matrix-based
keyboard
> > would
> > > much be different, in practice, from the current default input
> > method that
> > > is closely related to the encoding. I assume that you don't mean
> > that there
> > > should be separate keys for each syllable?
> > >
> > > RI
> > >
> > First, thank you all.
> >
> > Next, yes, Tamil does have a syllabary. And, yes, I have
> > used several input methods Windows 98 and Windows XP for many
> > languages so I have tried them - Chinese and Tamil, Korean,
> > Japanese, etc., etc.
> >
> > I have seen how the Pinyin Input method for Chinese provides
> > a powerful tool for literacy. The child sees the display of
> > English letters and can read Pinyin. The child then chooses
> > the correct Chinese character. It is a thing of beauty. I do
> > see that the encoding for Tamil may not have to change but I
> > do feel that a better input method must be developed before I
> > can recommend that the Windwos XP support is adequate for use
> > in the multilingual classroom. However, Chinese and Korean
> > are now adequate.
> >
> > Suzanne McCarthy
> >
> > > ============
> > > Richard Ishida
> > > W3C
> > >
> > > contact info:
> > > http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/
> > >
> > > W3C Internationalization:
> > > http://www.w3.org/International/
> >
> >
> >
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