Mark, I (a Spanish student of English language, with an education
:)) know that you, native -English- speakers, do use them, but I have
doubts about considering these phonetic forms as 'English syllables'.
I have always thought of them as borrowed, and because of this
characteristic, as not English. Our difference is just a problem of
perception, I'm afraid. So now my question is: do you English native
speakers take them as English syllables?.
Thanks for the information you provide in this group. It is very
interesting, and I am sure that I will learn a lot from our discussions.
EDURNE


----- Mensaje original -----
De: "Mark Odegard" <markodegard@...>
Fecha: Miércoles, Mayo 17, 2000 7:39 am
Asunto: [phoNet] Crack Cow.

> From: ecl4 <ecl4@o...>
> Date: Tue May 16, 2000 9:01am
> Subject: Re: Hey Bwana ....
>
>
> I agree with you in the sense that English people do pronounce
> in some situations those phonemes (/pw/, /bw/, or /fw/), but I
> think that Priotr's affirmation refers to only English syllables,
> since all the examples we can find with these syllables are words
> from languages. Maybe he should have been more concrete in his
> affirmation, but from my point of view it is correct, if we
> separate English words from imported new words.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> Yes, Piotr's dissertational affirmation is correct. But we native-
> English-speakers with an education do know about those exceptional
> borrowings.
> To repond, yes, my native-speakerness pronounces it Portoreeko and
> not Pwertoreeko. Iowa has a Buena Vista, and yes, it's done as bad
> as we do Nevada (which of course means we know better, but obey
> the rule about how native-speakers pronounce it).
>
> I don't think Poles do Warsaw as Wore-Saw. Or Crack-cow. But
> that's how native-speakers of Midlands American English do it.
>
> Mark.
>

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