----- Original Message -----
From: Juozas Rimas
To: phoNet@egroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [phoNet] Russian

I've heard Americans trying to speak a more natural Russian by
turning [d] and [t] before vowels into [dz] and [ts] (deti --> dzetsi
(children). And they succeded more than trying to pronounce
the 'pure' Russian [d] and [t]. I believe there are many people in
Russia who keep their d's and t's clean and don't elongate a's
(ka'zyol --> ka:zyol (he-goat) but under the influence of Muscovite
accent where all these peculiarities seem to come from, the number of
those purist will be diminishing.
 
Slightly palatalised [ts] and [dz] are frequent Polish learners' substitutes for t' and d' (such sounds are also found in East Slavic-influenced dialects of Polish). Apparently some amount of affrication produces a more satisfactory imitation of a Russian accent than targeting on somethging like the stage pronunciation of palatalised dentals. I wonder if it also sounds more successful from a native speaker's point of view.
 
An afterthought about what Sergei wrote about vowels: if a Pole attempts to imitate Polish spoken with a Russian accent, the most obvious thing to do (apart from modifying the palatals) is vowel drawling with all the diphthongoid or triphthongoid effects caused by CV and VC transitions.

As to Russians in Lithuania, their Russian is lituanizing quite
rapidly. The Russian language they're speaking is already spoiled and
they end up speaking Lithuanian with slight Russian accent and vice
versa. I think this is happening to all linguistic minorities in any
country (Piotr, do you agree that the so-called Poles, living in
southeastern Lithuania, can't speak any language at all except for
their fancy Polish-Lithuanian-Russian-Byelorussian lingo?).
 
Juozas, this is a political question. I can't speak for these people. I know some Polish Lithuanians who as far as I know speak impeccable Lithuanian. I have a colleague in my department, a Lithuanist, who comes from the Suwalki area, whose wife is 100% Lithuanian, and whose five sons speak both languages fluently (here, in Poznan, western Poland!). I know people from Vilnius who consider themselves Poles and who speak beautiful Polish (with a Vilnius accent); I know some ethnic Lithuanians who are fluent in Polish (I was impressed by Vytautas Landsbergis's Polish, for example). I have no doubts that there must be people who regard themselves as members of the one or the other nation for purely opportunistic reasons without being able to speak their alleged "native language". I'm sure of one thing: when dealing with delicate ethnolinguistic situations one must avoid unfair generalisations or dividing people into rigid categories. Ethnic identity has many components and language is only one of them, though certainly very important.
 
Talking of politics (which I should forbid on this list :)). I hope for the best relations between our countries, free of any irrational phobias. Ethnic self-definition is no longer a problem in Polish-German relations and it's surely high time more such ghosts were laid to rest.
 
Piotr